Love, jealousy, control … abuse

Many people seem to think that if jobs are open to men and women equally, then there is no sexism.

Be quiet little women, your battle is over, it’s done.

Because people think equal opportunities for employment is all that feminism is about.

Well it’s not.

What is really damaging to women are the subtle nuances and coded messages that society exudes. These basically say:

  • Women are sex objects
  • They exist for men’s pleasure and to breed children
  • They need to be controlled and owned

There’s nothing new here. This message has been kicking around for thousands of years. And it still is. Don’t believe me?

Take this extract from an ‘erotic romance’ book. It’s the usual tall dark handsome rich type meets waif and stray and falls in love with her.

She’s a hairdresser and was having a private conversation at a party in the library with a client, discussing his homosexuality. He’s not publicly gay, hence their private conversation.

Boyfriend’s brother rings boyfriend and says ‘your girlfriend’s on her own with another man’. Incensed boyfriend arrives at party and causes havoc. Later …

“She cleared her throat. “Yeah, pretty much. I was also telling him that his father already knows about his sexuality. I sort of figured out that Caiden didn’t think his father knew he was gay and I was, you know, breaking the news to him.”
“Well, that was a compassionate thing to do,” he said, after a pause, but in a monotone voice.
“I think so,” she said with a hint of defensiveness. “I had to debate about it for a bit.”
Damian continued, “So I want you to know that I appreciate how sweet you are. What a good person you are—”
Angie could feel it coming. “But?”
“But, the thing is, I don’t give a rat’s ass if he’s gay. Granted, the fact that he’s gay is the only thing that saved him from going to the emergency room tonight, but as far as you’re concerned, you can’t be alone with him. Him or any other gay man. You got that?”
“Why?” she questioned.
“Why?” he asked as if he hadn’t heard her correctly.
“Yes, why?”
His fingers tightened in her scalp. “Because gay men have penises. They have balls.” His voice hardened, “Too many of them are bisexual. Trust me, if any woman in the world could turn a gay man straight, it would be you, baby.”
Angie stood within his grasp and listened in amazement. It was obvious to her that his opinion came from a heterosexual viewpoint. A very hetero viewpoint. So hetero that he was unable to see that gay men were just that, gay. She could try to explain it to him, she could argue that just as he wasn’t sexually interested in other men, gay men weren’t sexually interested in women. But the problem was, Angie knew it would go in one ear and out the other. Damian wouldn’t get it. Not because he wasn’t intelligent, but because he was so male.
She remained silent as all of that ran through her head and he continued, “Besides, let’s talk about the party for a minute.” His mouth flattened. “Suppose a straight man saw you walk off with him, undoubtedly to be alone. Suppose that straight man didn’t know the guy was gay. You know what he would think?”
“What would he think?” she asked, wondering at the depth of how Damian’s mind worked.
“He’d think that you were up for grabs. He’d think that maybe he had a chance at you, too.” His expression clouded in anger. “So, next thing you know, you’ve got straight men hitting up on you because they think you’re available.”
“Damian—”
“Be careful, Angie,” he warned softly.
“You’re taking this a little too far,” she argued.
“Am I?”
She nodded her head.
“I don’t think so.” His chin jutted out. “I’m telling you how I feel, I’m telling you what I expect.” He pushed forward, his torso aligning with hers in a sharp movement. “And I’m telling you that you can’t be alone with any man. Not one. Not a single fucking man is acceptable.”
“My father—”
“Fine. Your father,” he spit out. “If I ever meet him, I’ll have to trust him not to be a perverted fuck. But nobody else. Gay is not an excuse to be alone with a man, already married is for damn fucking sure not an excuse. No-fucking-body gets to be alone with you, understand me?”
She stared at him and he kept talking. “If I catch you alone with a man again, I’m going to beat the living shit out of him, and you—”
“What about me, Damian?”

Now, what is wrong with this scenario is that our rich hero is nothing more than a jealous, untrusting, controlling, possessive bastard. Just because he is rich and has a big penis does not make it all right.

Did our heroine tell him he shouldn’t meet privately with his sister, his step-sister, his mother, his secretary, or any woman? Of course she didn’t.

Because in real life, where waifs and strays don’t marry men with mega bucks and mega cocks, these sort of men abuse women, mentally and physically. The women end up nervous wrecks, are not allowed to go out, and if they are lucky, they escape to a shelter.

Yet, authors (?) churn out this tat because it sells. Women have been fed the fairy tale about the handsome prince from day one. The handsome prince who will love us, cherish us, provide for us … and control us. And it is perpetuated in these sort of books. Because, dear reader, he marries her – of course – and they live happily ever after with twins in his condo and his mansion. She doesn’t end up in the shelter. Why ruin the fairy tale?

Relationships should be based on trust, not control.

If I’m gadding around Cherbourg with Roger, does my partner care? Or if he’s having coffee with a woman friend while shopping what’s it to me? He can have coffee with twenty women if I don’t have to shop.

But telling a woman she can’t be alone with another man? That isn’t love. That is very scary nasty manipulation on the psychotic disorder scale. And presenting it as romantic is equally weird.

This isn’t an isolated example. These portrayals of male/female relationships are everywhere, in books, in films, in life.

It’s not easy bucking the trend. If nothing else however, all women should stay away from any man who bans her from being alone with another man..

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About roughseasinthemed

I write about my life as an English person living in Spain and Gibraltar, on Roughseas, subjects range from politics and current developments in Gib to book reviews, cooking and getting on with life. My views and thoughts on a variety of topics - depending on my mood of the day - can be found over on Clouds. A few pix are over on Everypic - although it is not a photoblog. And of course my dog had his own blog, but most of you knew that anyway. Pippadogblog etc
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71 Responses to Love, jealousy, control … abuse

  1. Sabiscuit says:

    Thank you for the introduction to your blog. I enjoyed reading your views on the garbled mess that is churned out as paperback fiction. However, if authors make money writing this, there will be no incentive for them to raise their game. I have no problem with them making money. I am exhausted with real life women who learn relationship tips from these fairy tales. It works out like this. Those types of women believe in selling themselves to all men as sex objects. Which is harmless fun unless they’re your friends and you leave them alone in a room with your men. x

    Liked by 1 person

    • Well, truth is we could all wish to write drivel fiction and make money. But at the expense of perpetuating this imagery? I think not. Unless I was in the gutter in which case I would have no computer.

      Thank you for your visit and your generosity 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

  2. Wow this is such an interesting and powerful read! I have to say I loved it. You have written an incredible post by the way and I have to tell you that I love your blog!

    Like

  3. Ruth says:

    Ugh! This is sold as romance and [some]women believe it is romantic. The knight in shining armor. He’s *protecting* her.

    Let me tell you something, having been married to this(though he wasn’t rich), this isn’t romantic. It’s exhausting. It’s walking on eggshells. It’s anxiety attacks waiting to happen. It’s isolation.

    I would ask, “Don’t you trust me?”

    “Of course I trust you, it’s those men I don’t trust. I’m a man. I know how they think.”

    Oh really? Do you think of getting some anytime you’re alone with a woman who isn’t me? WTF?

    And, so the fuck what if you don’t trust those men? Unless you think they’re all rapists what difference does it make if every man on earth thinks I’m up for grabs if I’m not? We agreed to be in a monogamous relationship, so as long as I say no to every single one what difference does it make what’s in his mind? So in the end what it really says is that you don’t trust me because you think that all it takes is for a man to pay me a little compliment, to show me a little interest, and I’ll take all my clothes off.

    Hell, I couldn’t even laugh at another man’s jokes without being quizzed about whether I had the hots for him or not.

    In case you can’t tell I’m getting wound up just thinking about this. :/

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    • Ruth, I apologise immediately for that. It wasn’t my intention at all.

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      • Ruth says:

        What on earth have you to apologize for? If you censored your blog to accommodate possible wind-ups you’d never write a word! No apologies necessary. It’s an important topic and yours was an excellent post. It’s all very disgusting. It’s just that where many women seem to see a fairy tale I see a cautionary one.

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        • I didn’t intend to trigger. But I read this last night as a ‘chill-out’ (I read crap after I’ve been working to wind down) and for whatever reason this one sent red balls in the air. It screeched ‘abuse’. Not love, not anything. Abuse.

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          • Ruth says:

            I know you didn’t. Sometimes it just happens. That’s not your fault. At.all.

            Abuse is exactly what it is. How people can construe this as romance is beyond me.

            Red balls? Red balls, red flags, seeing red…

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          • I wanted to point out this whole thing is being portrayed. Everywhere. But, how do you recognise it unless you talk?

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          • Ruth says:

            Exactly. You should definitely not be silent for fear of triggering anyone. The very reason this persists is because we’ve stayed silent far too long.

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          • Ruth, I haven’t been there. Parental abuse yes, but spouse no. However, it doesn’t take much IMO to read something and hit the ceiling.

            Do our partners tell us we can’t be alone with another man? What utter bollocks. It is so degrading it is unbelievable.

            Liked by 1 person

  4. Sonel says:

    I’m with Ruth where she says she can’t understand how anyone can see this kind of behaviour from a man as ‘romantic’. That guy would have been ball-less and everything else ‘less’ if that was me in the story. I also never fancied any novels like this and the ones where they meet, fight and then ‘discover’ they’re actually in love, became boring after a while. Give me something I can learn from or think about and weave it around a story. Then I’m interested.

    You’re right. A relationship should be about trust. If it’s not there, it’s not worth it. Jealousy is for children who still have to learn something from life and definitely doesn’t suit adults at all. It’s childish and silly and it doesn’t prove anything.

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    • Excellent response Sonel, seriously. Comes with age? 😀 I do think there is something about how we conduct relationships though as we grow up. He’s jealous, means, he loves me. No it doesn’t. But we are brought up to think like that. And that’s my point. This drivel is perpetuated through crappy novels. Real men say ‘shit, I forgot to get something for you from the supermarket’ and traipse there yet again. (Happened today.) That’s the sort of man I want.

      My worry about this sort of book is that it continues to suggest women should trade control and independence for money and being owned. Very. Bad. News.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sonel says:

        LOL! Just saying how I feel and sometimes the mind is a bit more clear than other days. Must be age then. hahahah!

        I have no idea. I never could handle a guy who was jealous. That to me meant that he thought he possessed me. I always felt that I am not a possession and that no one can or will ever own me. That is not the way anyone should feel about a person they love. I guess that was the reason why I grew up in a house like I did. My mom was the jealous type and she could go crazy. I couldn’t understand it. Even when I read books like that, it irritated me. You’re right. It is drivel and I don’t know how books like this can sell and they shouldn’t.

        Exactly darling! Men who aren’t perfect just like us. Mine is also prone to stuff like that but I love him just the way he is. Perfect for me. 😀

        Yes, that is my worry as well. There are women out there who think this is the way they should be treated and it’s not. Unfortunately some of them do that for money. Very sad indeed.

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  5. tildeb says:

    People confuse all kinds of stuff with ‘romance’. I think the problem is arousal in the medical sense of physically responding to stimuli and then associating this physiological change with ‘romance’ and rather than what it actually is… in this case control. People do the weirdest associating, and often wire their brains to channel it into sexual stimuli. Things like pain and dominance are probably the two most common dysfunctional associations and, because we experience a physiological change and pay attention to it, we will even continue to seek out these specific kinds of arousal.

    It’s not much of a psychological mystery why, say, a child with a great deal of arousal issues with a dysfunctional parent later seeks out and usually finds the same stimuli in a sexual partner. Do I even need to mention the drool repetition of children of alcoholics growing up only to marry an alcoholic, a woman abused leaving the abuser only to go back on her own accord, an abused child later abusing children, and so on?

    These kinds of books play into this arousal feature of its readers… readers seeking not sex but what leads to it, namely, romance. Associating romance with arousing dysfunction is a staple of the entertainment industry.. especially when there is a plot resolution that ‘fixes’ the dysfunction through ‘love’. Of course, in real life fixing the dysfunction means altering the arousal patterns which, if relied upon for sexual arousal , probably will kill the ‘romance’. But we never read this part of this old story but prefer to continue to believe in our faith-based delusion and fantasy. This would be fine and dandy if it weren’t so highly dysfunctional in practice that rarely pays not dividends improving the quality of one’s life but many negative consequences to burden it with (like dangling my prepositions for all the world to see).

    Liked by 1 person

    • That’s a great analysis. And you can dangle as much as you want. Brits don’t mind dangling.

      Anyway, I think we are fed very strange values and they continue with us as we grow up, and become a part of life when, rationally, we should just say, ‘hey, that’s crap’. But we don’t. And indeed we do repeat behaviours. Even if we had wanted children I think we would have thought seventy twice after both coming from abusive families. How easy is it to reproduce the same pattern?

      Pain and dominance, though, I think are slightly separate. In a controlled consensual situation, they don’t compare with DV. This extract I quoted was nothing short of sheer controlling abuse. Not sexy, not romantic, something to run a mile from. I actually can’t imagine lasting five minutes with someone who would tell me I couldn’t be alone with another man. I honestly find that horrific.

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      • tildeb says:

        I think the attraction angle for such control relates to submission and giving one’s self to another (who, in this case, demands nothing less). I also think one has to think very little of – and for – one’s self to be willing to do this. It’s also an emotional and childish shortcut. After all, it’s hard to be autonomous and it’s hard to be responsible. That’s why it’s hard to be all grown up and why so many people can’t or won’t face up this natural progression.

        Interestingly, the creation myth of Genesis helps us to understand what tools we need – knowledge of good and evil – in order to ‘eat’ from the tree of life and leave this kind of childish and dysfunctional and dependent behaviour – Eden – behind. And we need to leave it behind if we are to form adult unions with others and face the inevitable suffering that comes from living in order to raise the next generation equipped to face their own futures.

        Of course, the myth has been totally perverted and made into a necessary historical event to justify the need for magical redemption offered out of ‘love’ by submitting to the Overlord and granting toHim absolute control (the first four commandments sound like your character) over our lives.

        Ironic?

        Way too gentle a word for this capitulation of responsible autonomy that thwarts eating from the tree of life.

        Like

        • That’s a hugely complex issue. Totally agree it’s hard to be responsible, grown-up, and just, adult. Even after nearly sixty years. And yes, mummy and daddy are no longer there.

          But at some point, growing up and taking responsibility has to happen. Or maybe not for some …?

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  6. makagutu says:

    I think most people either don’t care or don’t know and for this reason such bad books sell

    Like

  7. EllaDee says:

    I’m pleased you didn’t share any more of the excerpt… what utter rubbish… unless you’ve left out the next bit where she tells him to #%*$ off!
    I’m curious, male or female author? Country of origin? Damian suggests USA somehow? I wonder if they write under a pseudonym… I wouldn’t put my own name to it. It sounds like a poor version ripped off from Days of Our Lives or Bold and the Beautiful. Do their scriptwriters even stoop so low?
    The reading world is full of contradictions… it perplexes me. I see reviews slamming perfectly good novels because they contain swear words and run of the mill sex, and yet this subversive line of so called erotic so called romance apparently has a market.

    Like

  8. disperser says:

    I agree with all that, except I would be remiss if I did not point out some of that goes on the other way as well.

    Meaning, women do get jealous if they see “their” men with another woman, especially if they appear comfortable with each other and having fun (laughing at something).

    Someone might point that out jealousy is childish, but it’s not just a matter of maturity. Other aspects of one life play significant roles in how one reacts to situations. I often cross blogs where people are struggling with depression, insecurities, and lack of self-confidence. All of those affect what we loosely define as trust, and thus how we see the world.

    There is one derivative of the scenario you paint which does involve stereotypical beliefs, and again they span both sexes, although males are more obvious about it.

    For a variety of reasons I won’t dwell into here, I make friends with women much easier than men (lest anyone assumes some competition issue is at the base of it, no; mostly lack of common interests), especially in the workplace.

    It took a number of years and a couple of incidents before I stopped making friends at all at work. Namely, because I had female friends I was comfortable with, and unbeknown to me, people assumed “something was going on between us.”

    That had negative implications for both the friends and me. Again, mostly men, but women too made the same erroneous assumptions.

    So, are romance books perpetuating a myth, or are they a reflection of real life?

    Certainly you and your readers are likely less prone and affected by insecurities and lack of confidence. Still, trust is not something one earns once and is then anointed forever; it’s always tested and reaffirmed. Given the numbers (statistics) of how many people cheat on each other, it’s not surprising some insecurity might creep in everyday life and is then magnified in fiction (as is everything else).

    Note: to this day, I have no female friends (in the real world) outside my immediate family. Then again, I currently only have one male friend, so that might not have anything to do with fear of stereotypical impressions; it could be I’m just not someone who needs (wants) friends.

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    • disperser says:

      That should be “less prone to” . . .

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      • I doubt anyone would notice that 😀

        You make totally valid points. And I’m on the other side of the mirror. So easy to make male friends in the workplace. It’s probably not about gender. Maybe it’s about how we view each other. But in all honestly, I had fuck all women visit my office. Men? Loads. They felt comfortable with me, women didn’t.

        But nobody thought anything was going on. Ever.

        Romance books do both. 😦 Sadly.

        Anyway. My mates from university are mostly men and no one cares. Well maybe one wife looked a bit peeved when we sat on the sofa together looking at photos.

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    • Ruth says:

      “Certainly you and your readers are likely less prone and affected by insecurities and lack of confidence. Still, trust is not something one earns once and is then anointed forever; it’s always tested and reaffirmed. Given the numbers (statistics) of how many people cheat on each other, it’s not surprising some insecurity might creep in everyday life and is then magnified in fiction (as is everything else). ”

      I’m not certain that I suffer any less from insecurities than anyone else. I have a number of them. Sometimes I *have* gotten jealous. I think the distinction, though, and what likely makes the difference between maturity and childishness is how one deals with that emotion. Emotions are just that. They aren’t right or wrong, they just are. It is how we react to those that determines the level of maturity and growth. When I feel those things it doesn’t take me long to remind myself the my insecurities are my problem, not my partner’s. If he is doing nothing wrong then why should he pay a price for my feelings?

      As to the rest of what you wrote: yes, people do cheat, and apparently large numbers of them cheat. Yes, that does create a certain amount of insecurity. But that cheating goes to the character of the cheater, not the character of the cheated upon. If one is so worried that their partner is likely to cheat, is that the kind of person they even want to be with in the first place? How exhausting, for both parties, to always be so insecure and so worried about what the other is doing. It seems to me that it creates an environment fertile for self-fulfillment of our worst fears. The jealous spouse always demanding control pushing the controlled spouse to their breaking point and possibly even infidelity.

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      • disperser says:

        That gap, between emotion striking and rationality regaining control, is what gets most people in trouble.

        As for the cheating, I’m assuming most people who are cheated on were not expecting it, never saw it coming, and never looked at their partners as potential cheaters (why would they have married them to begin with if they saw them as unfaithful?).

        Here’s what pisses me off in books and movies . . . when the person “forgives” the husband or wife or significant other who cheated.

        Sorry; not just in marriage, but life in general, you get no second chance. Lie to me once,
        and it’s done. I will never trust you again (I’m not referring to little lies like “Me? No, I did not eat the last piece of pie. The dog probably ate it. What? What do you mean, ‘we don’t have a dog?’ When did the dog die? What? What do you mean ‘we never had a dog?'”)

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        • And yet, people do. My cousin was busy shagging around, and at the same time he admitted it to his wife, she said she thought she was pregnant to the office manager. Nine years ago when I saw them they’d been married forty years and were gazing at each other as though no one else existed …

          I actually think there are worse things in life than sexual infidelity. But I’ve not been faced with it, so I can’t truly say. I gave my word and I stick by it. I expect the same in return.

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      • That sounds like, if you look hard enough you will find what you seek, ie, if you push someone hard enough then infidelity will result. I don’t know. I take my partner’s word. If he’s been unfaithful, I don’t know. And, does it matter? There are other things that break up a relationship as well as cheating.

        But telling me who I could speak to? Be alone with? Because, love? That is sheer garbage. It needs knocking on the head.

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        • Ruth says:

          I certainly don’t think that all people who are pushed that hard will cheat. But there are cases where it’s happened (i. e. If I’m going to be assumed guilty all the time I might as well do what I’m being accused of). Though I do feel a person of integrity still won’t cheat. They’ll deal with it head on. I do want to make it clear that lack of integrity is never another person’s fault no matter how badly they behave. But, yes, if you look for the devil you just might find him.

          My broader point, though, is how exhausting the whole jealousy bit is for both parties. Do you really want to be with someone you don’t trust enough to be alone in a room with someone else? I don’t. And if you are jealous to the point of telling your partner who they can and can’t speak to or be alone with, is the problem with you or your partner? Unless partner has given a cause to distrust I’d say the problem is yours. If partner has given cause to distrust to that degree why are they still your partner?

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          • Absolutely Ruth. I think push so much and yes, people will behave in the way they are being portrayed. Or accused of. But again, why would you end up in that sort of relationship?
            I don’t think I’ve ever been jealous. I’ve rolled my eyes a few times at blondes (he attracts them) who flutter their eyelashes, but hey, it’s his choice and his decision.
            I *think* or *hope* after thirty years we have a reasonable relationship. I thought it was ok after a few weeks. We’ve had to live separately. We’ve been apart for weeks. Trust has to come into it. And jealousy is not love as portrayed by silly books.

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          • Ruth says:

            I’m not really the jealous type, myself. Have I been jealous? Maybe a time or two but it’s not a space I inhabit. And when I have been I’ve realized how silly and stupid it was. It’s a waste of emotional energy. TheBrit attracts women like crazy here simply because of his accent. If I were the jealous type I don’t think it would be good. I trust him.

            Are there worse things than sexual infidelity? I’ve definitely experienced things within a marriage that I thought were worse. Having said that, infidelity of any kind is pretty much a deal-breaker for me these days. And it really has little to do with the object of the infidelity – meaning that the thought of my partner having sex with another isn’t necessarily the problem in and of itself. There are lots of people who have open relationships, or they swing, or whatever. As long as everything is above board and in the open and agreed upon by the partners I really don’t think it’s for anyone else to judge. No, my problem would be broken trust, betrayal. I can’t be with a person I can’t trust. Which goes to why I’m not a jealous person and I want to be trustworthy. Like you said, I’ve given my word and that’s that.

            I know that everyone isn’t that way. But if I find out they’re not I won’t waste my time worrying about whether they can be trustworthy. I just won’t be in that relationship anymore. The end.

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  9. pinkagendist says:

    Actually been thinking a lot about you recently because I’m reading about the social structures of Imperial China and women’s roles (consorts, concubines etc.) At every new book and chapter one can’t help but thinking, “This can not be real”. And yet it was.
    The degree of manipulation in Imperial China went beyond pathological abuse. Which of course is my view as an outsider. The more I think about, the more parallels I see with our own Western cultures- it’s just that we’re used to our own

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    • Thank you. Did you think of me as the consort or the concubine?

      But yes, I doubt there is little difference. Change the clothes and the physical appearance … and … the same.

      Like

      • pinkagendist says:

        LOL. I thought at how furious you’d be at the system itself. During the Ming dynasty there were 12 ranks assigned to women the emperor chose to bed. They started out life as “attendants”, hoping one day to become a concubine and if they were very lucky they might become a consort after that.

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  10. A doctor will need to examine my head for being a Devil’s Advocate (for the sake of paleoanthropology!) here and offering a plausible alternative to “black-n-white” explanations. 😛

    Sexism is still rampant in the animal kingdom and it is the animal kingdom from which we Homo sapiens have evolved… in several/many forms. Sexism is still extremely prevalant in the primate genus, with Bonobos (Pygmy chimpanzees) mating being one exception to traditional sexist primate behaviours. This genetic biological programming goes back at least 300,000 to 500,000 years in hominids. Evolution takes a VERY LONG TIME, especially when trying to identify or change DNA programmed urges, and the product of evolution will not always suit every single hominid or Homo sapien, including females, at a singular point in time. “Resources”, protecting them or getting them, have usually been the root of all “evil,” if I can borrow the appropriate phrase.

    But don’t despair! Change is always happening; every single century, decade, year, month, week, day, and second! In fact, in a few short seconds I will probably be HEAVILY “persuaded” to change this comment/attitude! 😀

    Like

    • @Prof Taboo

      “his genetic biological programming goes back at least 300,000 to 500,000 years in hominids. Evolution takes a VERY LONG TIME, especially when trying to identify or change DNA programmed urges,”

      I was wondering how long it would take before the evolutionary psychology apologetical-bullshite would leak out in a attempt to justify the patriarchal society we have today.

      Almost a day, not bad, all things considered.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Darling, evolution may well take a long time, and after all, your own country is merely a few hundred years old, ie less than my personal place of residence has been British, however, in the last hundred years, humans have still been to the moon and back (allegedly), invented microwaves, blown each other up with nuclear bombs, etc etc etc and you are suggesting that Me Tarzan, You Jane, is an adequate attitude for a supposedly sophisticated society?

      Because quite frankly, anyone who treats me as a brainless fuckwit, attempts to own me, set limits on who I see or what I do, won’t be evolving very far at all.

      I know you love lessons about feminism, so suggesting that a woman is nothing more than a child-bearing resource will get you an extremely large kick in the bollocks.

      But, I suppose you need some excuse to justify sexism.

      Change may be happening every second. Just not with regards to subjugation/oppression of women. Funny that.

      Liked by 2 people

      • As we know each other pretty well Roughseas, and I DID SAY I was going to crazily play Devil’s Advocate here — because honestly I love dynamic challenging dialogue even when I’m intentionally taking the wrong, or in this case Neanderthal, position (I’m a teacher 😉 ) — I would never purposely imply you were “a brainless fuckwit”… but I’m quiet sure you knew that anyway. 🙂

        However, extreme sarcasm sometimes has its comical value in discussions. I use it sometimes too. It helps make serious topics (like this one) more human, more equal, more enjoyable.

        Nevertheless, you already know Roughseas that if I slip-up (as I sometimes do) incognizantly on the sensitive topic of feminism, I will earnestly try to understand and correct myself and thinking. ❤

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        • The point is, that justifying jealousy, control, possessive abusive behaviour because of evolution doesn’t quite fit the mark. I know you are a sweetheart, but still, saying evolution is, is a bit like saying, God is. Does that make any sense?

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          • “Justifying” would not be my word of choice. Understanding with the intention of evolving better, wiser, more equal, more productive as a group… a HEALTHY strong group (both genders) would the term I’d prefer.

            If one cannot identify the source(s) of the problem — assuming a “problem” is first admitted; in this case/post I absolutely do — understand it, then how can it be best repaired, overhauled, etc? That is my more serious point Ma’am. 🙂

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          • Well of course a macho male would say that. The superior species and all that 🙂

            Easy. One stops judging, discriminating, viewing woman as inferior sex objects. Not that you do ❤️

            Liked by 1 person

          • Great point Roughseas! ❤

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          • I always worry when you agree with me.

            Liked by 1 person

          • tildeb says:

            That’s not how evolution works. Artificial selection, sure… animal husbandry for the males, perhaps, but certainly not evolution; after all, you know perfectly well that for evolution to apply, it’s all about reproductive success of the next generation to reproductive age. Suggesting group selection has any place in evolutionary terms is just another piece of sociological mumble-babble useful in quieting the so-called chattering classes generally and women in particular. What we’re talking about is about publicly criticizing a common and pernicious discrimination no matter how it is presented or by whom. It’s not genes that hold the answer: it’s individuals changing their discriminatory beliefs and the politicians (and other kinds of leaders) changing the laws that continue to privilege it.

            Liked by 2 people

          • Hi tildeb,

            In my haste to comment quickly, shortly, to Roughseas but with some slight significance or flat-out humour, I have fallen victim to someone’s sharp eye even though I was mostly playing the role of “Devil’s Advocate.” Roughseas knows that I can be very “daring” sometimes… to a fault.

            With that said, I wasn’t using “evolution” in its purest definition; more as a period of time or centuries/millenia. That was my fault. Please excuse my liberal use of the term.

            In just as general and quick a broad stroke as earlier, I do believe that Nature with Nurture go hand-in-hand and play significant yet subtle (over a long long period of time) parts in Cytology morphing and adapting, not only to/with our surroundings/environment/people, but also internally… like a skin-blister eventually forms a callus in order to function under present conditions of friction.

            Warm regards tildeb. 🙂

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          • tildeb says:

            Well, I certainly share that hope but evolution isn’t the way forward because it suggests we have to be twits until our genes and parents order us to be otherwise. This is our responsibility alone and the time is right now to not be a twit*

            * Apologies of course to those who, through no fault of their own, have been born with the twit gene and now try to cope with their inherited condition through medical aid, intervention, and drug therapy and must don the mantle of having to be self-appointed Language Police for those who, like I do, use the term ‘twit’ too flippantly and without enough sensitivity to the delicate snowflakes so burdened.

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  11. theoccasionalman says:

    I also appreciate the equation of masculinity with excessive heterosexuality. Because gay men are all effete, delicate creatures who don’t know how to kick some rich bastard’s ass.

    Liked by 1 person

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