Right, said Fred, these vegetarians have to go

Roughseas, If I may. There are a growing number of vegetarians among Jewish people, especially in Israel. In Genesis, God originally gave a vegetarian diet, but modified it to allow for changing world conditions. I was vegetarian for many years and only recently gave it up in order to simplify my, and my daughter’s, lifestyle. It can be a pain for others when someone insists on vegetarianism at family functions, office outings, etc. Also, as a single dad I am not the best chef in the world and it takes thought and dedication ( and money! ) to prepare healthy and balanced veggie meals.


Well, it goes along with religion which is unbelievable.

I find this comment grossly insulting and offensive.

It can be a pain for others when someone insists on vegetarianism at family functions, office outings, etc.

Really? Just really? Why?

Why is it a pain to respect someone else’s opinion/choices/ethics?

How about, I check out Jewish holidays before I hold meetings to respect people’s (to me) ridiculous beliefs? No meetings on Yom Kippur or Shukkat. Or Shabbat. Or we turn on the neighbour’s fridge on Saturday because they can’t. Or we take phone calls for neighbours when they aren’t allowed. Or we make sure a job is finished in time for sundown, or, or, or.

So when some Jewish convert says vegetarians are a pain because they don’t want to eat dead animals, then quite frankly, I think he is an absolute tosser.

Does he eat non-kosher food? Is it a pain to provide kosher food? What happens when he eats out?

Incidentally, Tivoli produces an interesting range of vegetarian kosher food.

In fact, I’ve written before that providing vegan food meets most dietary requirements, as long as gluten-free, nut-free is taken into consideration.

And how does giving up vegetarianism simplify a lifestyle?

Ever visited India? You would find a very simple lifestyle there with a vegetarian thali I tell you.

it takes thought and dedication ( and money! ) to prepare healthy and balanced veggie meals

Thought, dedication, and money? Balanced meals? That applies to everyone.

Yes, perhaps it does need thought and dedication. Money no. Plenty of poor people live on vegetarian diets.

As for balance, I’ve just spent the last few days living a basic Spanish pobre diet. Legumes for the main meal, a salad for evening meal.

It’s cheap, it’s not difficult, and it is surprisingly edible.

Fred, you win the arsehole comment of the week award. Don’t disrespect others. You may find they will disrespect you.

PS I just love how ‘God’ allows for ‘changing world conditions’. Shall I start on that one?

And it’s the pharisee blog or whatever it’s called. All this mumbo jumbo is the same to me.

About roughseasinthemed

I write about my life as an English person living in Spain and Gibraltar, on Roughseas, subjects range from politics and current developments in Gib to book reviews, cooking and getting on with life. My views and thoughts on a variety of topics - depending on my mood of the day - can be found over on Clouds. A few pix are over on Everypic - although it is not a photoblog. And of course my dog had his own blog, but most of you knew that anyway. Pippadogblog etc
This entry was posted in animal rights, Atheism, food, vegan, vegetarian, vegetarianism and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

53 Responses to Right, said Fred, these vegetarians have to go

  1. john zande says:

    Fake meat is coming! Beyond Meat is now in nearly 2,000 stores across the US, and the lads behind it have so many backers (from Google to Gates) it’s only a matter of time before they leap outside the US. The moment it arrives here I will eat meat no more.

    Liked by 1 person

    • John. Fake meat has been here for years.

      Liked by 1 person

      • john zande says:

        Horrible fake meat, yes. From everything I’ve seen (but yet tasted) Beyond Meat has almost nailed it. Nick Kristof was even promoting it this week in the NYT’s… and I sent his article out across this great southern continent 😉


        • These sort of products have been around for years. Soy, pea, whatever. Or Quorn which America doesn’t like. It’s not new. Any of it. Seriously. I can walk into Morrisons, ok, I could limp, but I send him, and find pea protein, soy protein, tvp etc. And the Jewish veg food.

          Not eating meat isn’t about eating meat substitutes, it’s about eating differently.

          What about fake duck or whatever it’s called that is really seitan?

          Surely Brazil has health food stores that sell tempeh, seitan, tofu?


          • john zande says:

            You’re not understanding. All the existing alternatives are shitty. Beyond Meat has nailed the texture. It’s important, and this is the breakthrough that is needed. Well, i’m hoping it is, for the mass market.


          • No. You are the one who has no idea. Seriously. Tell me, just tell me, how you have cooked vegetarian food? I mean for thirty years?

            Liked by 1 person

          • Not eating meat isn’t about eating fake meat. That’s one step the Neanderthal hasn’t pegged. Seems the superstitious ape hasn’t either.

            Liked by 1 person

          • john zande says:

            Of course it is. What is it to you?


          • Actually, why are tempeh and seitan shitty?


          • Hariod Brawn says:

            I am having the same issue John.


          • OK, there are a number of different ways to look at this.

            1) if you want to eat a meat substitute that tastes like meat, it does not exist. There is no substitute for say, smoked salmon, a rare steak, halibut/Dover sole/haddock (insert fish of choice), roast pork, chicken, lamb chops, lobster, scampi, king prawns etc.

            There are however, very good substitutes for sausages eg Cauldron and Linda McCartney, burgers, LMc, Quorn, Morrisons own brand, and others. There are plenty of mince substitutes eg TVP, Quorn, and goodness knows what else. We ate veg sausages out once and I could have sworn they were meat, but, apparently not. After all, most sausages have little meat in them anyway.

            Lots of firms do schnitzel type food, eg Tivoli, Quorn and Morries again. There are also beefy style pies and fish pies, all of which actually do taste like the food they are imitating. I’ve had fishy pieces and fish pâté in Spain which was pretty good. Redwood has a very good range of (vegan) food, ranging from tempeh rashers to beef slices for sandwiches.

            But as I never ate that sort of food before I was vegetarian, it doesn’t play a part in my diet now. If I wasn’t vegetarian, I would be eating the food in my first par, and no-one could tell me that there is a veg replica of those foods. There isn’t.

            2) Bland. The most bland veg food is tofu without a doubt. For both texture and taste. It’s also versatile. It absorbs flavour easily, you can get smoked tofu, silken tofu, and if you freeze it, the texture becomes more chewy. For what that’s worth. Maybe not a lot when teeth fall out …

            Veg protein such as tempeh (soya) and seitan (spun wheat) aren’t about trying to taste like meat, they introduce different texture and they have been around far longer than commercial fake meat products. Tempeh, like soya, marinates well, especially with shoyu. Both tempeh and seitan fry well, and casserole well. As a rule of thumb, I use tempeh and tofu for chicken recipes, and seitan and tempeh for beef style ones. Food is never bland if you use the right ingredients. Is curry bland?

            3) People are vegetarian for a number of reasons. Usually i) they don’t like meat/fish ii) for health iii) for ethics, ie they don’t want animals to be killed/farmed in appalling conditions, iv) religion, ie fish on Friday or veg once-a-month Buddhists, v) environmentalism.

            I’ve done ii and iii. And iii is by far the biggest motivator for not eating meat. But it’s about eating differently. Many people, or people catering for vegetarians, shovel eggs and cheese into a meal. I use herbs (fresh and dried), chillies, ginger, garlic, EVOO, two types of vinegar, wine and Jerez, shoyu/tamari, and a shed load of veg. I have a store cupboard of herbs, spices, legumes and nuts. My partner buys a burger occasionally. We buy tempeh, seitan and tofu from time to time.

            It’s not about wanting to have a chicken sandwich or whatever Beyond Meat suggests in the recipe section. Quite frankly I wouldn’t buy any of their products. The western world is obsessed with protein and meat. Status. However you look at it.

            Liked by 1 person

  2. What utter rubbish! It’s never been easier to prepare vegetarian meals. There is so much choice now. And yes, to say that catering for vegetarians is ‘a pain’ is bloody insulting. I think it’s a pain when meat eaters call us weird, and odd and woolly minded, tree hugging bunny lovers. Yes…that one was aimed at me earlier this week.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Hariod Brawn says:

    “It’s cheap, it’s not difficult, and it is surprisingly edible.”

    Don’t tell me, you used to working in advertising – right? 😉


  4. EllaDee says:

    Reading between the lines I’d love to know what they’re really eating. I know I don’t get out much but vegetarian is widely available & affordable via all walks of food providers, in many forms… not all great in number of choices or variety-content, but there. And nor is asking for others to be considerate of it… Me & my family cater happily for my vegan, now still mostly vego sister, and a vego in-law. Even, I, not vego, take that option when it suits me because I like veges, and I don’t always want to eat meat. It’s not inconvenient for anyone.
    His comment about asking for vego at office outings made me laugh… if only he knew the wide, varied & detailed dietary requirements of my co-workers that are catered for!
    It may not be the case but to me it sounds like the guy who made the comment just wanted to eat meat and whatever, or his daughter did and he couldn’t be bothered sticking to his guns, so he came up with quite a list of justifications… he doth protest too much!

    Liked by 1 person

    • It depends where you get out. Gibraltar is currently stuck in the 1980/90s with offerings of veg lasagna, stir fry or curry. It’s one up from a cheese omelette. And Parmesan cheese is everywhere (not vegetarian see exchange with Pink below). But in more advanced societies eg London and some parts of America, there are amazing offerings. I read some menus and just drool. Partner was working for someone last week and she made him a sandwich. Loads of customers do. They don’t find it inconvenient.

      I had one office meeting and I decided to use a local health food store, stocked organic food and did great bread. So I asked people what sort of sandwich they wanted and ordered specific requests. How difficult was that? Our local council had a catering service and they ALWAYS provided a good veg selection with any catered meals. Of course, when you get someone who isn’t aware of dietary requirements, all that thinking goes out of the window …

      I agree. Isn’t that the case with most things though? Eating vegetarian is a state of mind. And, it would do an awful lot for the environment if more people ate less meat, let alone what it would do for animals. But wait, that might affect big business!

      Liked by 1 person

  5. pinkagendist says:

    I don’t mean to defend him at all- but I’m usually wary of cooking for vegetarians. It’s a minefield. Remember when you corrected me on parmesan cheese? I’d be absolutely destroyed by inviting someone to my house and then not giving them something they want to eat. Usually I try to aim for ‘special’, so imagine failing all together?


    • That’s why it’s easier to cook vegan, you don’t offend anyone. Did I include Gorgonzola in my Parmesan lecture? It’s interesting that to be approved, certain cheeses must be made with animal rennet. Silly traditions. Like, who could tell the difference? There is an excellent veg Parmesan style cheese in the UK, bookmans, or something it’s called. In terms of grating on pasta, pizza etc, one would be pushed to tell the difference.

      It’s not a minefield. Vegetarians (acc to UK veg society) don’t eat flesh, fish or fowl. Cheese is without animal rennet, and eggs should be free range. Simple 🙂 And, if you buy any processed, pre-made food, then you check the ingredients to make sure there’s no bits of dead animal in. I was doing that before E numbers came in though to avoid sugar and monosodium glutumate. Not that I buy much readymade food anyway. However, I bought some aceitunas and banderillas the other day. If I want pepinillos on their own they have MSG and sugar in, if I buy them as banderillas they don’t. Aceitunas have a few preservatives, but I buy the ones with the least. Some cheeses in Spain have egg in them, and colouring 😦 Spain is hopeless at labelling and also about putting junk in food.

      If you ever want to impress a vegetarian, the best dish to go for, IMO, is a veg Wellington. We’ve had it a dinner party hosted by an excellent cook, and we’ve had it out in Gib (before the Waterfront went down market). Apart from that, just being catered for is enough in itself. You can research art, news, history, goodness knows what. Why should vegetarian food be any different. Would you cook for someone with a nut allergy? Or someone with diabetes? Or coeliac disease?

      Liked by 1 person

      • pinkagendist says:

        Veg Wellington is a fabulous idea! I’d never heard of it, but that opens up 1001 possibilities. I’m going to try one tomorrow.
        But my point is I have a tsunami sized fear of failure. Of course I’d cater to no nuts, I’ve had lesbian friends for years, but that’s reasonably straightforward 😛


        • I think it was actually made with chestnuts when my friend made it. I tend to use almonds, hazelnuts and walnuts when I cook with nuts. V good for stuffing large pasta tubes or making cannelloni. As with veg Well, one of the easiest ways to cook tasty veg meals is to take the basics of a classic meat/fowl recipe and chuck in a preferred veg option. That’s why I like to use my French cookery books, always have delicious sauces. Roselyn Masseline has a good gourmet cooking vegetarian book with extremely elegant looking dishes, some of them even taste good. She’s the one who uses champagne vinegar … and Supersol in my pueblo still hasn’t started stocking it yet 😦

          Liked by 1 person

  6. i was going to come back today (popped over yesterday to read), and write my bit, and see that in your answer to John and Hariod, you have written most of it for me. When a friend had dietary needs recently and told me she was gluten-free, I checked the packets of food I bought and made her a lovely meal. When my own friends have been nervous, (and they do worry they’ll get something wrong) about cooking for the vegans they know, they usually ring and ask me if there is a substitute for certain dairy or meat products. Then they cook a great meal. It’s different, not difficult. Like learning a new recipe and buying the ingredients. You can cook things like lasagna and have them taste even better than the original recipes. I know this because people rave about my food (I love to cook), and have often found themselves questioning if there really is no meat or dairy popped into that I serve. I don’t punch them or anything, I give them the recipe hahahaha.

    I like lots of meat substitutes, and can’t move for them now over here. Some of them are bloody awful, but the good ones are just that. (The pies are lovely for one.) As you say, the supermarkets have a huge range now,m and even do a cheese that actually tastes like cheese. (I did a secret taste test and gave some of my family some without telling them it was dairy-free, and they loved it.) I don’t care how, or in what form the fake meat appears – as long as it causes no pain for animals – if it gets people to stop paying others to torture and kill animals, purely for their own selfish pandering wants, then I’m up for it.

    Oh yes, and you can even get vegan Cornettos now in the supermarket. They are to gorgeous too as well. Yum.

    “It can be a pain for others when someone insists on vegetarianism at family functions,” – Bloody hell, and he used the ‘pain’ in that context without catching on one jot to the irony.

    – sonmiupontheCloud

    Liked by 1 person

    • Actually I forgot the basic one to J and H, which would probably sound insulting, but, you have covered it in less blunt terms, but basically, how well do people cook? A good sauce can make a meal. Unless you want the items I mentioned, which you can’t reproduce in any way shape or form, then vegetarian food is equally as tasty. I used to love fish, especially halibut and salmon. When we went to Corfu and got invited to a Greek party, well actually we were kidnapped, we were happily eating our salad, so I had no need to use my famous two words of Greek, heemos ortofargoli, or something similar (we’re vegetarian), and then they brought out the fish and the lamb. I ate the fish, he ate the lamb. I tell you, it was vile. I felt sick.

      I made lasagna yesterday, had loads of aubergines and peppers from Spanish neighbours. I flit between veg and vegan because he likes cheese so it was a veg one not vegan. Today I’m making pizza, my half will be vegan, his will have some crappy Spanish cheese. I don’t agree with it, but I’m not chucking thirty years of marriage over cheese. Apart from that it will be aubergine, peppers (obviously), toms, onion, garlic, chillies, capers, fresh thyme and basil. Far better than I could get out and at a fraction of the cost. So it makes some mess. I think the result is worth it. Yum. Must make a move on it. Oh, and can I come to dinner please? If I’m not inconveniencing you?

      Liked by 1 person

  7. makagutu says:

    in Genesis for no reason that we can tell, Yhwh chooses a meat sacrifice over a vegetarian offer. It would be pretentious in my opinion to claim he/ she advocated a vegan diet.
    I am working hard on changing to a veg diet, I must admit it’s not an easy thing to do.


    • I thought the original deal was that YW told A&E they could eat out of the garden. The carnivore option came later because of human weakness. Or maybe whoever wrote the book didn’t want to be vegetarian. Take your pick.
      It’s best done poco a poco. We did it, first by cutting down on red meat, then all meat, then chicken, we still ate meat at my parents and restaurants (veg food was expensive and poor). Then, we stopped fish. But this was over a couple of years. There’s no need to rush or pressure yourself.


  8. Sonel's World says:

    Truly unbelievable for sure and if I was a vegetarian I would feel the same. How can it be a pain when anyone insists on the type of food they want to eat? What about people with diabetes? To name just one!

    It shouldn’t be a pain to respect someone else’s opinion/choices/ethics, but clearly there are so many a-holes in this world of ours. They believe they are the only ones who are allowed to have opinions/choices/ethics and the minute you give them yours, you’re the one that is wrong! You’re not allowed to make your own choices – nooooo! You have to go along with theirs. You’re not allow to have your own beliefs. Nooooo! You have to believe what they do and if you don’t … well, then you’re just nothing!

    That comment was very insulting and offensive. Of course you have the right to choose what you want to eat and if you don’t want to eat meat, then it’s your choice!

    As always, the religion thing comes in. Why don’t they simplify their lives by not believing in crap?

    I say, if you want to be a vegetarian, you can be one and it has nothing to do with money. It doesn’t matter what you buy nowadays – everything is expensive. I just said to hubby a few hours ago that all the magazines are so full of ‘healthy living’ but why don’t they make the ‘healthy foods’ a bit cheaper so that we can afford a ‘healthy living’??

    Just because I like my fish and sometimes a fatty piece of meat, doesn’t mean I do not have to respect other people’s wishes. If I invite someone over for dinner, and they have a preference, I have to respect that. I for one would love to live on salads, but my salads have to include Feta cheese, avocado and olives in it … and that is expensive. Our Avo tree only bears fruit every second year. I wouldn’t mind having vegan friends that lived nearby though. But I do know who to ask for recipes if I ever have to cook for a vegetarian. 🙂

    Let’s not start on what ‘God’ allows. If there was one, I think he will hang his head in shame. I love how this ‘God’ of theirs ‘modify’ things to suit their needs … oh, excuse me .. ‘changing world conditions’! Bleh!


    • Exactly. Diabetes is the first one to come to mind along with coeliac disease. I’ve written lots on here about diets and how to cater for people. With the exception of wheat (coeliac) and nuts, a vegan meal is pretty easy. We had tortillas the other day, ok , we could have used corn ones not wheat, pinto beans, and you mentioned avocados, mmmmm, so I made guacomole. Plus salad. That is an easy cheap meal, and delicious. Oh, olives. We live on them!

      I’m thinking of planting an avo. Any tips?

      When I catered at work, I tried to cater for everyone. Absolutely everyone. Regardless f my preferences. At home, my choice is my own. I think that’s fair.

      Hey, God is what God is. Preferably what people want it to be. Silly old superstition.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sonel's World says:

        So very true and I have never eaten tortillas. Looks like I have to come for a visit. Let me win the lotto first. 😆

        I also love avo’s but olives are my most favourite. They are expensive here though.

        I have no idea as this tree was here when we moved in and if I had anymore space in the yard, it would have been filled with avo and fruit trees. 😆

        I did however google for you and found this interesting article and I think you will find it just as informative as I did:


        Now I know something as well. Thanks! 😀

        That sounds fair enough, especially if people invite themselves over, but not if you invite them.

        Yeah, let’s not start on those silly superstitions. 😆


        • Wow, that is an interesting link. It was on my list of things to check. The current one has already split and I’m saving another. Toothpicks? Hmm. Might just plant and chance. Thanks Sonel.

          Seems they are expensive everywhere. 😦 water I guess. I’ll try and post my guac pic on my next post if I remember.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel's World says:

            Glad you liked it. Yep, toothpicks. And then I remembered my mom always used to do that but never got around to plant it. LOL!

            You’re very welcome. 😀

            Yes, around here they are. When ours bear fruit it’s sometimes so many of them that we can’t keep up with eating them and then hubby would do a FB post and tell everyone in the surrounding area can come and pick up if they want to.

            Must be and yes, even water is expensive.

            Please do. Won’t help if I remind you because I forget quickly as well. haha!

            Liked by 1 person

          • I’ll post avocado updates specially for you 🙂

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel's World says:

            Oh, that would be so awesome! I would really appreciate that and feel honored. Thanks for being such a lovely friend. 😀 ♥


          • They won’t be very often!!

            And you 🙂

            Liked by 1 person

  9. Well, I am quite late to this dinner party. My apologies Darling. :/

    No surprise, I have nothing at all meaningful to contribute here regarding the cooking, or the "good" proper cooking, of food… or proper food as discussed. With that admitted, I coud speak oogles on this from Fred…

    "In Genesis, God originally…” and STOP right there!!! LOL

    What an incredibly and grossly presupposing statement to make right off the bat! Yes, I’m sure there was other context in the entire dialogue, admittedly, and you mentioned the exchange was on a ‘pharisee blog’ so much can be inferred there. However, I find statements like that extremely intrusive, pompous, and almost insulting to all of humanity. It demonstrates a gross lack of awareness for your fellow humans. Yuk. My stomach immediately became nauseous and I could read no further.

    The/his presuppositions are running rampant everywhere, not the least of which is the existence of a god or gods. Next and assuming there IS a theistic god, what method(s) do we lowly human beings have at our disposal to know this god, let alone understand its language, desires, power, etc, et al. Wow! How unbelievably narrow-minded a statement!

    Hence, without challenging Fred’s rampant presuppositions, I must then completely agree with you Roughseas your contention! Really!? ….

    It can be a pain for others when someone insists on vegetarianism at family functions, office outings, etc.

    HOLY MOTHER MARY OF WHATEVER GOD!!! You must be kidding me!? That language HAS to be the newest version of super-hyper-egocentric personality disorder that I have stomached. 😮

    And so with that… I am bidding farewell. I have other things to do than give this gentleman any of my valuable time or energy. How are you doing Roughseas? 😀


  10. Arkenaten says:

    It’s odd that inconvenience and ”a pain” and not tasting right are reasons for not eating flesh.
    Over here, there are several companies that do excellent vegetarian burgers and sausages and pies so’s what’s the difference? As for taste?
    This is minimal. It is simply a different taste not a bad one and like any change the taste buds quickly get used to it.
    Let’s be honest, what does chicken taste like?
    Nothing much without salt and pepper or peri peri. Same for steak and sausages or lamb,
    I don’t take milk in tea or coffee and on the occasion someone has fogotte and added milk the taste, quite frankly , was revolting

    Oh, and the company I buy my prepacked food from is based in Natal and are called Fry’s. A small family business. And the husband’s name is … wait for it …. Wally.

    Its no great uphill to cook either, and I don’t mind doing my share at the stove – in fact I thoroughly enjoy cooking.
    I have tried to mentally monitor what’s going on with my body and have not noticed a single negative side effect from not eating meat. In fact,I have found it no hardship at all and one benefit I noticed fairly early was my teeth didn’t ache.
    Yes, weird, I know and It may simply be coincidence, but I have been plagued with sensitive teeth for some time yet immediately I stopped eating meat the soreness went away. I didn’t even notice at first then one day at dinner I realised I was chewing away merrily without a thought to my aching back teeth.


    • Don’t forget the nutrition aspect. Veg*ns know nothing about this and naturally lack protein (about which I have bored for Britain, Gib, Spain and Europe on a previous post about the protein fallacy).
      It’s very much a texture thing, hence using tempeh and seitan, soya chunks, freezing tofu etc. The Quorn products are good if you can get on with them.
      I was looking up veggie burgers and the Fry company came up, so I read about them. Sounded pretty good.
      I’ve never taken milk in tea or coffee. Not even in India which caused a few problems. I have soya milk in from time to time, mainly for curries eg Thai, and a Jamaican sweet potato one I did yesterday.
      Neither of us have noticed any difference. The body is pretty adaptable, and there is such a variety of non-animal food to eat. 🐄🐖🐏


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