What’s more pitiful than that vacuous, bankrupt statement is the fact Ms. roughseas admits to having never read the Bible.
From, theancients on colostorms’s blog. Oops, Colorstorm.
Now it is fair to say I have not read the bible. I have read some of it in RE classes. I have even read Matthew 2: 1–6 at a school nativity.
Nor have I read Fifty Shades of Grey. Do I need to do so to form an opinion on domestic violence and BDSM? I can find better objective sources elsewhere.
I haven’t read the qur’an either. Nor the vedas. Nor the bhagavad gita although, like the bible, I have a copy of it. Nor the kojiki. Nor the popol vuh.
Does one really need to read every mythical tome to decide whether or not to believe in a religion? Or to disbelieve in it?
Will reading the bible make me more likely to suddenly believe in God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit? Extremely unlikely.
But how would one choose which religious text to believe in? The oldest? The newest? The majority viewpoint? And then, which sect? Which branch of Hinduism? Catholic or Protestant? The dilemmas are endless.
And Me! My religion is the only one! doesn’t quite do it for me.
Why, is my statement about not being able to discuss something without a Christian invoking the bible bankrupt or vacuous? Honest perhaps. And pitiful?
What is pitiful is people who can’t live without a badly written rule book. People who can’t live within themselves. People who don’t respect the rights of others. People who are hypocrites. People who lack sufficient thinking capacity to work out a moral code for themselves.
People who believe in presidents who say god sends them to war. That is truly pitiful.
People who discriminate against homosexuals are pitiful.
People who discriminate against women are pitiful.
Now. Tell me again. One. Good. Reason. Why I should read 1041 pages of the RSV?
And what happens to people who study the bible in detail? Just ask the deconverts.
roughseasinthemed
Clouds moving in 
Garbage in, garbage out.
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Ouch!!
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‘A good name is more valuable than rubies.’
‘Faith, hope and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.’
‘Grace mercy and peace to you.’
‘A wise son maketh a glad father.’
‘And God saw that His creation was very good.’
Yeah, would to God NNotes that all garbage was so sweet.
Try again.
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Awww, my favorite cherry picker. 🙂
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Well now, you are making progress. You have just admitted ‘all’ is not garbage. Hmm. That poses a problem for you notes; now you just have to understand the terms of that which you find repulsive.
Ok, cue the ‘death scenes, the dietary laws, the clothing, etc.’
I repeat: it’s all about the terms……….God is perfect, you and I? eh, not so much.
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I do feel sorry for you sometimes. To be so afraid of reality that you continue to buy the BS. A grown man at that.
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Feel sorry for me Notes? Perhaps you share the same sympathy for the people in this vid? After all, it was inspired through scripture…..
I send this along for rs who I am certain will enjoy this. And I challenge one person to say publickly they do not like this. Careful how you answer regarding your fellow creatures.
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😉
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Tkx notes for making my point. Even the ‘creativity’ for the tune of atheism is borrowed.
Maybe rs will agree that there is no comparison between the humanity of my vid against such a mock.
And being that you were so quick to post (looking at the time stamp) one wonders if you really thought about the various dynamics of the production.
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CS, see my comment below.
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Not my style at all. Although thanks for the thought. I prefer Handel.
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Jonah is worth reading. Once you get beyond the literalists to see it is clearly a story, it has its amusing moments. God loves the Assyrians, the bad guys, and rebukes the True Believer. It is only four chapters.
Ecclesiastes is worth reading. Utterly world-weary.
Have you read Gilgamesh? “Nothing new under the sun” in the oldest extant story is ironic.
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I *think* I read Jonah at school. For the obvious whale reasons. But not the latter bit. I’ve just re-read it. Like much of the bible it is full of … conundrums.
Eccles looks short. Maybe a book a day perhaps. Eccles tomorrow?
Gilgamesh? No.
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Gilgamesh is worth reading. You get the original of the flood story, a meditation on what the fact of Death means for our lives, and insight into people in Sumer four thousand years ago. There’s a Penguin translation.
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The history would be interesting. Possibly.
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I just remembered the sh*tstorm created at Costco a couple of years ago, when some distributor put a ‘fiction’ sticker on the Bible. . . ummm. . .
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Really? Nice move 🙂
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That’s what I thought! 🙂
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I’m just wondering what reading this particular book of fiction will add to my life? So I can say, yes fundies, I’ve read it? Still a crock of shit. I knew that before I started. Clare mentiond Jonah but at least she referred to literalists. But, virgin births in whatever year it was, Jacob’s ladder (good film that), whales spitting out people, feeding 5000 with a couple of fish and a few loaves of bread, parting the sea etc etc etc. I am so not going to read this fantasy – could rival Tolkien, no, maybe not – and believe it. I could go on for ages!!
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The one thing you DO learn when you read it is this: it’s another myth, plain and simple.
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When I’d got past my childhood prayers of ‘Gentle Jesus meek and mild, look upon this little child,’ I never thought it was anything but fiction. Still said the prayers. Just in case. Gave up a few years ago. He didn’t save Good Dog Tarquin so that put a damper on things.
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Ours (when we were kids) was
“Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.”
Now, I ask you – how gruesome is that??? No wonder I had nightmares. . .
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The rest of mine was ‘suffer my simplicity, suffer me to come to thee.’ Not much difference. I used to cut it short though. Gentle Jesus meek and mild and god bless mummy and daddy and good dog Tarquin. Priorities. Pink’s one about breaking toys was a good one 😀 nightmares? Had them all my life 😦 Fear. Of whatever.
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Go on, admit you had the urge to put the words undereducated and imbecile in the same sentence 😀
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Cretin. You forgot that one. 🙂
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I think I’d go with *professional cretin* 😀
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Easily attainable qualification wouldn’t you say? Shall we start a list of graduates? 😀
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Victoria said it so well. Reminded me of the saying: ‘You are what you eat.’ Guess the same goes for what you read. Must be why I am such a horror to most people. I do love my Stephen King and Dean R. Koontz stories and would much rather read that before I read the bible ever again.
Yes, ask this deconvert. I had bible study as a subject as well and grew up in a church that believed all the other beliefs are wrong and that they were the ‘chosen children of God’. Yeah right!
You don’t need to read the bible or know anything about it to have an opinion or morals. I didn’t want to click on the link because I knew what I would find there. Insulting comments thrown at you from all sides.
Not surprising though. Makes me sad to see how people who say they believe in a ‘God’ can be so utterly disgusting. I believed in their ‘God’ once upon a time and I believed ‘He’ was a loving and caring ‘God’, but when I looked around me and saw some of the ‘beings He created’ and how they hurt and degrade others because of this ‘belief’ they had, I knew there wasn’t a ‘God’. No ‘God’ in his right mind would want people like this believing in him!
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I read all sorts so I don’t know what that makes me. Not so much horror though. You don’t count. You know deconverts were never really true Christians™. (Victoria included)
I find it all irrational and illogical. Which is why there is no point having a discussion with people who say Because God. Or because The Bible (which was my original statement that triggered this off). Just like CS’s reply below. How can you discuss anything sensibly with someone who actually believes it is ‘settled in heaven’? Aaaaaagh!
I lead a pretty moral life. I defy some Christian to say they are more ‘moral’ than I am. But we can all choose our own values and morals and I’m happy with mine which is what matters.
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Well, I don’t care being a horror. I like being a horror. 😆
Even when I still believed or should I say ‘was told what to believe’, I never could call myself a ‘Christian’ and I never liked that label as well. I also couldn’t understand all this fuss about ‘Jesus’ and how people could believe in someone that died eons ago. Now, just because a ‘book’ says he was the ‘son of God’, now everyone should believe it and if you don’t, then you don’t fit in their ‘club’. Who cares? Don’t wanna be in their ‘club’. I have my own club.
I agree. Very irrational and illogical and you are so right. You can not have a discussion with people like that. I refuse to have discussions with them. Quite a few here call themselves ‘Christians’ and they know I don’t believe and that’s it. We don’t discuss it and I have no interest in discussing it. It’s my non-beliefs, my life and none of their business.
They believe it because they are told to believe it. Not because they’ve seen it and believe me, the doubt is there but most will never admit it, because for them ‘believing in something’ is better than ‘not believing in anything’.
The church I was born in believed that heaven is on earth and the way they explained it sounded more plausible than this notion that God is somewhere sitting on a cloud watching everyone or is floating around in the universe.
I know you do and that is what it is. We do choose our own values and morals and we all live in our own realities. It is and never will be the same as anyone else’s, and why should it be? I’m also happy with mine and correct. It’s all that should matter. 😀
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We had a god squad at school. They were very cliquey. Tried to get me involved:D I got on with them, went youth hostelling with a couple but I wasn’t getting involved in ‘Jesus’.
There’s no need to believe in anything. Live our life as well as we can, and accept it’s short and sweet. No eternal paradise. The fear of death that pervades these
cultsreligion is amazing. No one is usually in a rush to die, but acceptance that we do is a good start. Puts life in focus.You feed your local wildlife and nurture and look after it. We all try and do something. But we don’t need a book to tell us what to do. Just, others, apparently do. Insecurity or what?
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Yep, know those types as well. Could never understand their fascination with a man that died ages ago.
Exactly! Yes, that’s all we need to do, as hard as it can sometimes me and most of the times we are the ones making it hard. I have no fear of death. Just want to die peacefully and in my sleep. Guess it’s not too much to ask. Seen my mother struggling with her cancer and held her in my arms while she died. Don’t want to go out like that.
No one is, but death is a part of life and yes, that is what we all need to do and that is exactly what they are doing. They’re like some insurance salesmen. Scaring you just to get sales.
We all do what we feel is right and looking after nature and the ones I love feels right to me. Don’t care what my ‘purpose’ is on this planet because all that matters is what’s happening now. The past is what it is and we can only learn from it. Not live in it.
I totally agree. We have enough man-made laws. Some work, some don’t and some are not enforced. Why believe in a book that man also made up years and years ago? Just like any book there is some lessons we can take with us for inspiration, but sure as hell not something to believe in so strongly that you think you are the only one that is right and that others are wrong.
Could be insecurity. Could be fear. Who knows? I found it interesting when I had bible study as a subject, just like you find history interesting, but not something I could believe in. A lot didn’t make sense and no one in church could give me a clear answer. Always bible verses. I didn’t ask for that. Hubby always calls them ‘Verimark shoppers’. Gullible people who believe anything anyone tells them and buying that crap. 😆
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Purpose on the planet? I wonder what time people have on their hands to ponder such topics. Does it matter? We’re here for now, so just get on with it instead of pontificating about why we’re here (apart from the obvious that two people had sex together a number of years ago). And use some common sense. Assuming everyone has some, and I’m not convinced about that.
I thought RE/RS was interesting at school, mainly because it was like history. And that’s it really, something that happened (maybe) in the past. And like all historical study, it needs to be interpreted using correct and accurate source material. Not to be used as guidance for living in the 21st century. We might as well use Suetonius or Tacitus. They have as much if not more credibility.
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I totally agree. Clearly they don’t have anything else to do and want to waste our time with crap like that. It doesn’t matter. Now they want to live in the past and want to tell others how they must feel, want and believe. That is the big joke. There’s no common sense left when it comes to their way of thinking.
Same here but even then I had lots of questions, just like I did with history and any other subject, but unlike the other subjects, no one could give me acceptable answers. Yes, you said it. Something that ‘maybe’ happened in the past and who knows if any of the source material is correct? It was written by people, not ‘gods’. Just like Wikipedia and just like Wikipedia the information can be wrong. Agree! Or just as well believe that everything written in Wikipedia is true or even Facebook. I know a few that believe that if you have read it on Facebook it must be true. 😛
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Relatively polite? I’ll try.
Your last line rs is telling. I’ve never met a decon who ‘knew’ the scriptures. From front to back, and knowing the whole story. Yeah, yeah, I know, they quote it, read parts of it, maybe have a degree or two, but if one KNEW it, there is nothing but awe for the true God of heaven who is mistake free. Grace is one heckuva impetus for understanding.
True, many people run unsent, and are themselves bastards who have caused aggravation, but God is not to blame. His word is sure, steadfast, and there is no other book like it on earth. Most people know this. As a matter of fact, it is settled in heaven.
And the great tempter has gained much experience over time, challenging this word with a clever hiss: ‘did God really say that?’ Sneaky. Yep, the professional doubter works overtime to bring defamation upon the word of God.
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Hi CS. Thanks for (politely ;)) commenting. We’re miles apart in our points of view, and that was the basis of my original opinion. At least I’m honest enough to accept we will never reach agreement on probably virtually everything.
Isn’t that the typical comment of a Christian though for a deconvert? They never knew the scriptures properly, they weren’t really believers, hadn’t found God, the HS, been saved, achieved grace etc etc. they were just pretending to be Christians. A bit like an atheist might say, well x,y, z weren’t really ever atheists before they converted to Xtianity.
Bit of a sweeping statement. Do they really? Many people who claim to be religious accept the bible is flawed. Only the fundagelicals believe in its inerrancy. Nor does a majority viewpoint mean that is a correct viewpoint. It *could* mean it was correct. It could also mean there are a lot of easily influenced people.
Not sure what one of those is. Not me. Apart from when I read the odd few blogs (most of the ones I follow don’t mention religion) I never think about it. Not a part of my life. I have more important things to do in the here and now without banking up credit points for the never-never land.
But again, thanks for the courtesy of the visit 🙂
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I’m just a simple person roughseas, and take words at face value.
:
A question was asked ‘Can a man enter the womb and be born once more?’ so to speak, speaking of the impossibility of being ‘unborn,’ so yes, it is more than not knowing the scriptures, but of being alive.
One cannot become unalive, hence my take on NOT deconverting.It is dropping off a place that never had a zip code I believe.
When the Lord says ‘I NEVER knew you…………..’ this kinds means that in spite of all the religious machinery, there was no life.
This would be true of me if I ‘deconverted.’ It’s a sad fact.
But your ‘credit points,’ is shallow. No believer thinks this. It is a relationship that is as certain as your children not having to question if he is truly not the mailman’s offspring.
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CS,
Since I’m welcomed here at this blog and treated fairly by Clouds, this is a very serious, respectful, honest question to you…and I do understand the subject of this post btw, BUT my question is simple and open-ended…
Can you list one, two, or three subjects you can discuss with anyone on this planet (who speaks English) in depth without any theology and canonical Scripture? If so, please list and give a sufficient answer. I for one, would be appreciative. Thank you Sir. 🙂
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That’s actually an interesting one Professor. It can be difficult to discuss topics without religion rearing its head. For example art, music, literature, history.
But, the difficulty is, when believers, of any religion, can not hold a conversation without reverting to the old standbys as their rationale for life.
I hope CS replies to your question, but, … I’m not holding my breath that he will play 😉
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Not holding my breath either. But to your point about radical-Believers-Fundies struggling to keep a conversation normal (unGodly?)… it is reminiscent of other radical Islamic groups/nations who ONLY teach one thing to their children and adolescents, that is the Quran, the Quran, and MORE of the Quran, nothing else. Period.
That mentality, that narrow-minded (cheating?) education doesn’t bode well for an expansive vocabulary or various applicable forms of expression, i.e. multiple languages for multiple cultures. And many illiterates or semi-illiterates soon get frustrated with the world of “Not-like-Me’s” and lash out or throw tantrums like little children do at playgrounds. The solution…or one solution?
Use your big words, your adult talk. 😉
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Such as carpentry, juggling balls, archery, painting, changing brakes on a car, sewing buttons, tanning a hide, playing golf? not sure what you are asking, but you will note that none of these can be done without hands, courtesy of the Creator…..Happy?
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I don’t know about the Professor, but why couldn’t you have stopped your reply at golf?
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@ Clouds —
Intentional or not, the last sentence proves the point.
But there might still be hope CS is part human. 😉
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@rs
The name of your post is ‘read the bible.’
Your last line explains enough. If I wanted to swap tales of general information, leaving out ‘YOUR bible…………….’ I would be a hypocrite.
As to not stopping at golf? My answer satisfied both parties.
‘To thine own self be true.,’ so to speak. I recognize all things as springing from He who owns the title deed to the earth.
I say this without embarrassment or apology. There is this thing called dirt……………..that we walk upon.
Carry on a conversation apart from the Creator? Sure, I do it everyday, but ultimately, as it always does, it starts and ends with the Highest above all.
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@ CS —
Thank you for the partial answer. Honestly, as two human beings I am attempting to find common ground to engage in courteous, thoughtful, respectful dialogue with you, or as theancients over on your blog could do very well… at least begin the earliest stages of a “relationship”, whatever that human “relationship” may become.
As mentioned, your reply was only partial. I truly wanted to understand some DEPTH about those subjects/hobbies you listed. Carpentry? What sort of byproducts have you created? What sorts of wood do you enjoy working with? Juggling balls? Ahh, that one might REALLY interest me! I played soccer/futebol all my life — from 9-yrs-old up to 48 — and had the lucky honor of playing on 4 of the world’s 6 inhabitable continents. So…what sort of “juggling”?
Archery? With modern compound bows, historical, what type? Details? Competitive archery? Painting? What style of painting? Favorite painters and why? Brakes? On contemporary vehicles? As a profession? On vintage cars/trucks/motorcycles? Sewing? That’s very interesting, at least to me. What sort of sewing? Tailoring, fashion design? Tanning hides, as I’ve seen MANY times at Renaissance Festivals, takes a bit of talent. What are some fascinating styles & methods of tanning YOU do? Golf? What’s your average score? How long have you played? Do you play on a competitive circuit? What’s your favorite 9 or 18-hole course?
Remember… HUMAN relationship starting. 🙂
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I’m up for painting, brakes, and sewing/tailoring. 😉
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Whoops. Thank you for catching my spelling error Clouds. ❤
"Haste makes waste?” 😉
You are more than welcome to change that misused word, then delete this comment after. But…I’m not paying you to be my Editor am I? LOL
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You took the words out of my mouth. But done 🙂
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Thank you kindly Clouds. ❤
(embraces her with warm hug with a slight grope for good measure!) 😈
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Your wish …
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Ah. The Colorstorm maelstrom. Where one struggles to understand a word in your amazing whirlpool of rhetoric.
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Doesn’t apply to religion. There’s a get out clause for True Christians™.
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@RSitM
But but but…its all there the appeal to purity, the wildly shifting goalposts…everything. And you’re saying religion is exempt?
*pouts*
🙂
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Religion is another level 🙂
No taxes. No human rights. No respect for women. No respect for homosexuals. Patriarchy rules.
And no need to have a sensible, logical, resaonable, moral, ethical conversation with anyone.
Because … god.
*pouts back*
PS Purity? That would be all these divorced adulterous xtians?
Rather than a bible they need a dictionary.
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@RSitM
I’m thinking that the whole No True Christian thing could have brought about much of the lunacy we see from people today.
“What? You burnt someone for being a witch?” *ponders* “Well, well, well, I bet I can burn a whole family for going against the grand ooga-booga!” Just a terrible series of doubling downs on delusional religious stupidity through the ages.
This perverse string of ‘holier than thou’ would be funny if they did ridiculous things, like competing to be the most pious by stuffing the most bees into their knickers and the like, because as we all know. only true followers of Jebus don’t get stung…
I’d be completely okay with the bee-thing.
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Bees are safer than Christians by a long (knicker) stretch.🐝
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Reading the byebowl will help you meet with the spirit sooner
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Send me loopy and in need of some strong spirit out of a bottle more like.
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You know the professional believers are going to try and crucify you for not reading the bible and following their faith. You must be an agent for the devil.If that’s the case I hope you enjoy all the best tunes I’m told he has. I also hope he pays a good rate of commission to bolster you against all the attacks.
Personally, I worked my way through the bible years ago and couldn’t contain my confusion at all the contradictions which it’s ‘contributor’s’ claimed were facts.
I think I’d rather be a nice non-Christian than base my attitude on the fictions that passes itself off life lessons for nice Christians which can teach them to be anything but.
Hugs
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Water off a duck’s back. Do I care? To be fair the Christian god has some nice tunes. I’m very partial to requiem masses and solemn masses. (Verdi, Beethoven, Rossini, Mozart)
Yes, even the few bits I’ve read aren’t inspiring in terms of consistency. But Colorstorm’s reply above explains all that away. Apparently.
I’m puzzled as to how people can’t be nice to each other unless they base their life on a silly out of date book. I don’t see what’s difficult about it.
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I have read the scriptures of the Bible. At some point it all made sense to me and I saw them as beautiful and rich with truth. In order to see them that way I needed to bubble. When the bubble burst and I needed to apply the scriptures to reality I realized I needed much more study. There was so much noise because each brand of Christianity interprets the same scriptures differently. Who is right? With the most important decision of my life and my belief that it was literally a matter of life or death (eternity) I embarked on a massive study and ended up seeing humanity and not divinity. I could no longer in good conscience call myself a Christian. It is not in my view divinely inspired in any other sense than men believing in a diety writing what they believe about that deity. And is certainly not inerrant nor infallible in the former we have it. That declaration is generally reserved for the originals which those who declare it have never even seen because they do not exist. It is on a par with Mormons declaring the Book of Mormon divinely received.
Having said that, I nor most others who dismiss all other “holy books” have not read those. They don’t apply that same logic or standard to any other spiritual document. The double standard is glaringly obvious yet they would scoff at the notion. They have read the genuine article. Why would they need to read a counterfeit?
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I don’t know why I try to comment using my stupid smartphone. Predictive text and auto correct always foil me. You’ll have to read my intended words if you can decipher them. Lol
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Made sense to me Ruth, but if you want any changes made (I made a couple) pls let me know.
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How many people say the same thing? That they truly can not reconcile the content of the bible with what they *thought* was Xtianity? It must be a terrific shock to the system trying to study the bible more only to realise that doing so causes doubts in faith.
I do have a problem with every religion saying Mine! Mine! Is the only one Truth Path. To the totally unconvinced person, how is one to determine the correct one (if there is one). Ergo, more logical to not believe in any.
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Jesus: the broad and narrow path.
For me, the broad way which leads to destruction is attempting to follow the conventional way of society, the rules. The narrow way is following my own idiosyncratic way- narrow, because it only fits me, and fits me perfectly. Quakers say our way is useful.
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Clouds…
This was a very good assessment of hyper-Fundamentalism. Fair. Level-headed. I too empathize with your POV.
In a few disconcerting ways, hyper-Fundamentalist (i.e. non-Christian intolerants) are eerily similar (identical?) to what I know about the Taliban, or ISIS, or any psychologically unstable group that hails a divine-exclusively-their’s supernatural Being/God…and OBSESS daily about dividing, discriminating, judging, harming(?) emotionally or physically, eliminating(?)…others who don’t ascribe to their theology, their holy texts, their lifestyle. 😮 Worse, they only talk ONE LANGUAGE… either non-stop Scriptural exegesis or direct quotes, or the paranormal power of spiritual experience (their’s or their church’s)…or a mix of the two. And no matter HOW patient and courteous I/we may try to talk with them in THEIR one language, they quickly cover their eyes, ears, hearts, etc, as if I have one eye protruding thru my forehead with bouncy antennae from my skull and I have these carniverous mandibles ready to snatch ’em up and carry ’em off to my Queen Alien laying eggs…for OUR dastardly conquering of the world!!!
Should I have just used the one diagnosis “hyper-paranoid“? 😈
However, to be seriously fair though…every once in a blue-moon (blood-moon?), I do encounter sensible Christians…mostly Moderate — or as canonical Scripture teaches/labels, “luke warm Believers” who take up dead space — who can talk to other non-Christian human beings. Those encounters are pleasant because of their humble walk, not their talk… or more their scary reciprocal cymbal-bashing collegues.
Anyway, we’ve discussed this topic (including VictoriaNN, Ruth, etc, too) many times and yet, we MUST find a way to live with them peacefully, each respecting the other’s individual beliefs and very individual experiences. Right? 🙂
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Actually it was just my punta de vista. But it is the lack of rationality and illogical reasoning that I can’t cope with. It’s like speaking French to someone from Bhutan. Or vice versa. Your point above is valid. We might all speak English (well, some of us do ;)) but we can’t have conversations where we understand each other.
I think your scriptural rhetoric is admirable. Not that I wish I could do it. Speaking Arabic would be more useful, but how far does one get? Every single former Christian, many of whom have attended seminary like you and worked in the church, is immediately and unequivocally dismissed as an evil advocate of Satan who never ever really believed anyway.
Mostly, the Xtians, Jews and Muslims I meet IRL are perfectly reasonable and never talk about their religions unless it’s a festival. They certainly don’t bring GOD into every flipping conversation.
Sure. When they respect my rights.
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Indeed. And if I may, there are 2 inferences I find involved with that condition in regard to Xtian-Fundies IF they truly live-by their God’s breathed Word: 1) thoroughly respecting your rights (as a non-Believer) will be a constant juggling act for them because of TWO canonical Scripture passages they must adhere and give witness for…apologies Clouds for the textual quotes, but it helps my points
…
“Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is — his good, pleasing and perfect will.” — Romans 12:2
“Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”” — John 14:6
There are several other passages to cross-reference this teaching. So you see, there is very little room (none at all?) for soulfully (humanly) relating to or collaborating with non-Believers and if they do, they risk becoming too much of this splendidly diverse beautiful world and captured by Satan. 😦
2) “Go then and make disciples of all the nations, giving them baptism in the name of the Father, and the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” — Matthew 28:19 (also Mark 15:16)
In order to avoid such possible/probable back-sliding and beguilment — because of their inability for self-Salvation and subsequent requirement for a Proxy — turning their community, state, nation, continent, and perhaps the world into one Christian existence is the ultimate Mission statement… until the Rapture. But… naturally many/most Xtrian denominations and quite divided on and interpret very differently WHEN and HOW the Rapture is supposed to come about or arrive. Think I’ll skip the other plethora of various canonical Scripture passages on this point. 😉
In other words Clouds, it probably won’t happen by those Believers who truly follow, live-by, and preach/teach the ENTIRE canonical Scriptures! Now Moderates, the Luke-warmers? Maybe. But radical Believers like ColorStorm, probably feel those Followers are no longer salt (Matthew 5:13) and of little use, or chaff the winds (world) will sweep away. I must give ColorStorm some credit though… he/she DOES give a pretty accurate human representation of most of the canonical Scripture teachings, but misses the overall theme of the same.
On a sidenote and from the extensive Roman Empire history scholars knows much about (due to the Roman’s obsession to keep records on EVERYTHING)… This sort of intolerant loyalty to the Emperor and empire is clear and unequivocal — which explains the serious problems the Neo-Jews (Yeshua’s/Jesus’ Movement) and the old traditional Jews revolted against Rome over and over and over, until 135 CE. Constantine, of course, took care of any dissidence or heresy in the harsh Roman traditions in 325 CE and following. We see these parallels now in the RC Church’s early history and remnants still today in many churches and Believers, e.g. David Koresh, Jim Jones, et al.
*If I’ve slightly misrepresented any history Clouds, please feel free to correct them — I was hurried & interrupted several times getting this typed. 😛
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No no. That’s fine. Thank you for the lesson 🙂
Which still proves my point, one can’t have a discussion with them without the bible being the central reference point. Ergo, no point starting 😦
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And if you’ll please indulge me just one more time Roughseas… 😉
To your/our point here, I wonder what Fundy-Evangies (like CS) think about this message/teaching? …
In the following chapter (2) according to this same letter, Saul relies on the Holy Spirit (i.e. the paranormal) of “Christ/Messiah” to “debate” against the non-Believers, NOT himself, or worse(?) discuss in various “languages” with the world what we MIGHT want to understand! Saul says/implies, don’t waste your time. However, I could list several/many passages in the Synoptic Gospels (i.e. Yeshua’s/Jesus’ teachings) that DO NOT teach or imply Saul’s paranormal passiveness. It seems dissimiliar, even contradictory. Today’s Xtrian churches, evangies, ministers are not in agreement (33,000+ denominations today) about HOW to deal with a world of so many unBelieving. LOL
Then again, we must remember that Saul NEVER met or spoke with (non-paranormally that is) Yeshua/Jesus in real life. And when Saul was heard about and reached Jerusalem (the Council of Peter & James the biological Brother, etc.) where the Judean-Xtrians lived and taught their version of Godliness, major conflict broke out. From the modern viewpoints of secular scholars and philology, this conflict centered around Saul’s heavy Roman (some Jewy-ness) socio-political tendencies and desire to make early-Xtrianity more Roman, i.e. more Gentile-ish. 😀
By 135 — 150 CE the Roman Empire (soon to become today’s Vatican & RCC) was crushing and exterminating ALL “heretical forms of perverted Xtrianity“, i.e. Gnostics, Essenes, Ebionites, Marcionites, etc. After all, that WAS the Roman way of handling conflict.
Apologies for the long-winded exegetical/historical lesson, BUT… what I’m trying to convey is WHY the Xtrian faith is so loopy, so fragmented, so divided, and none of them — from top to bottom, far left to far right — can all agree on who, what, why, how, and where their God is alive! They will CLAIM it is the Holy breathed Word of the Bible, but they denies the VERY historical fact that their “Bible” was Canonized in 325 CE… well… sort of. 😉 😈
Thank you Roughseas for allowing me the liberty, again, to rant on. LOL
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Dear me. You should start a religious blog. You are obviously enjoying dragging up your biblical past both here and elsewhere!
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The biblical mumbo-jumbo “cymbal-bashing” was sort of my point but with…
…meaning(?). 😉
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Whatever you say Professor. I think you are quite on CS’s wavelength with the mumbo cymbals 🙂
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Bwahahaha! Darling, you forget sometimes I happily worked in a Psych/A&D hospital for years! I communicate fluently and dance(d) with the Spirits! 😮 😉
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Of course. That plus years in seminary explains your fluency.
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Exactly.
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In some languages …
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@CS — you wrote: “And being that you were so quick to post (looking at the time stamp) one wonders if you really thought about the various dynamics of the production.”
Funny, I thought the same thing when with regard to the song you posted. LOL
The guy that wrote and originally sang the song (Leonard Cohen) isn’t a Christian. He was raised a cultural Jew, and is a Buddhist monk. It’s a secular song, and is metaphorical. He refers to stories such as Samson and Delilah and David and Bathsheba, because, as he stated in interviews with CBS and Rolling Stones magazine, part of the song is about drawing a linkage between sex and religion — that humans are irresistibly attracted to one another – an urgent appetite that embraces the whole world.
He goes on to explain what he means by the term Hallelujah:
“This world is full of conflicts and full of things that cannot be reconciled, but there are moments when we can transcend the dualistic system and reconcile and embrace the whole mess, and that’s what I mean by ‘Hallelujah.’
“The only moment that you can live here comfortably in these absolutely irreconcilable conflicts is in this moment when you embrace it all and you say, ‘Look, I don’t understand a fucking thing at all – Hallelujah!’ That’s the only moment that we live here fully as human beings.”
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That last paragraph citing Cohen, was intended to be in italics, too.
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Any better? Just ask if you want something changing. No prob.
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Thank you. 🙂
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De nada. Not that I liked the song anyway. Induced turpitude, and vile singing, but I thought your Cohen info was interesting.
Actually watching the vid (ok, you know me, some of it), I wondered about your take on it. All the people who started singing hallelujah looked stoned off their heads.
I mentioned Handel’s Messiah, but when I sang that, it was a big adrenaline boost, totally different.
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“All the people who started singing hallelujah looked stoned off their heads.”
Hahaha — Boom.
Oh, God, Oh God, YES, YES, YES!
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It sounded a bit like My Sweet Lord. Another not-a-fave. If people (is CS a real person?) are going to extol the virtues of religious music, they could at least pick something decent. But my taste isn’t very pop. I do like gospel music though 🙂
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Well, like Christianity is so good at doing, they hijacked this song, and dare I say, paid little attention to the actual lyrics. It’s hilarious watching these women in white, with performance smiles on their faces, singing that “maybe there’s a God above, but all I’ve ever learned from love, was how to shoot at someone who outdrew you.” LOL
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Yeah, the performance thing stuck in my gut. And the singing was still crap. Let alone the words. Hallelujah clearly does it. But as I say, handel did it better.
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@NN
Big fan of the K.D. Lang version.
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Arb, I recently heard Cohen say that Lang’s version was his favorite.
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Me, too Arb! I’ve been a fan of hers since seeing her on the Alan Hamel show (probably in the 80’s!); she thought she was a reincarnation of Patsy Cline in those days. . . 🙂
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Well notes, you may appreciate the fact that I included Mr Cohen’s rendition of this song…………in the link on my most recent post, which I did not think fitting to include here, and if you care to notice, you may also appreciate my short commentary on his longer version.
I am well aware of his ‘religious’ affiliation, but as stated, the vid here has more to do with humanity………..the entire production…………and the ‘religious’ appeal while evident, is more worthy on the strength of the weakness of men alone when met with temptation.
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“but as stated, the vid here has more to do with humanity”
CS, humans need one another whether they believe in their cultural deity or not. Even the biblical Adam was lonely, and he had your deity all to himself. That speaks volumes. Yesterday, as I watched the video you posted above, I thought about something Phil Hellenes said:
“Religion has amazing powers. It can unite people by the millions, and turn sadness into joy. It can sooth the shattered heart, triumph over mountains of contradictory evidence, and inspire rapturous belief where none seemed possible before.
Unfortunately, you can say the exact same thing about lying.”
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If ‘religion’ has slayed its thousands, atheism has slain its billions………………
It actually takes more faith to believe that all things appeared apart from Intelligence.
You see its not just a matter of faith, but misplaced faith. But you keep believing Nnotes in your wild and wonderful world of godlessness.
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Colorstorm, it actually takes willful ignorance to continue to believe in a book that has, for decades now, been shown to be historical fiction. World-renown archaeologist and historian, Magen Broshi, head archaeologist at the Israel Museum, states that there isn’t a serious scholar in Israel or in the world who does not accept this position. There may or may not be a creator, but one thing is certain — you’ve chosen to give your allegiance to a mythological deity that has exhibited the behavior of the worst of dictators, and your average alpha male baboon.
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I’ll do you one better notes:
If a thousand leading historians, or then thousand acrchaol say there was no Exodus, and that Moses never lived, i’ll show you the lot of them as simply being mis-informed, or a whole bunch of liars.
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One thing is quite apparent by your comment — you’ve never seriously studied the bible. I’ll wager that you’ve never read it in its entirety.
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Well notes you would be pleased when Moses and Elijah appeared with the Lord, that is the Lord Jesus mind you…….they spoke of His decease, His Exodus in Gk, did you get that?
They spoke of His exodus which He should accomplish at Jerusalem….via dolorosa,
But I suppose you knew that, but how fitting to hear of such a conversation representing the law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah) which speak of a sweet accord to Him who is altogether lovely.
Yep, this One above all, that supposedly, all decons have proudly fled. Please.
It does appear you have no concept of serious study, for if you did, you would find no fault in God or scripture.
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ColorStorm, you have not studied. That is quite apparent.
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Yeah, that’s a common charge Notes, and coming from a member of the A-
team, I’ll just take it as a veiled compliment, but none needed really.
Save the kudos for people who can dismiss God from His creation, no small feat I tell ya.
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Study.
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i’m thinking notes, that even they in the bleachers are becoming weary at your meaningless antics and lame assertions.
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Study.
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Yes a very good scripture you remind me of:
–Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.–
Always a fav. Key, there ‘approved unto God,’ which means I need not impress others who dismiss Him.
After all, the title of this post is: read the bible………
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Study.
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Hi Rs-
SoS out for your friend; she is drowning.
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Yes — drowning in your BS. 😀
Study.
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I think she was drowning in religion many years ago but she swam out of that mess. She’ll float just fine now.
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Yep understandable rs, I’ve said it a dozen times. The seas of ‘religion’ and the ocean of truth are not twins, and do not have the same source.
Pure and putrid are not kin. The wisdom that comes from above is FIRST pure, then peaceable, full of mercy and good fruit.
Why someone would flee from such a good place is kinda stupid,unless one has never been there. just sayin.
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Why one would go to such an evil, costly, controlling, frightening and essentially fictitious place is kind of stupid too. Just replying 🙂
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This place you speak of?
Sorry but:
FILE NOT FOUND and zip code unknown…………..
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Oh. It’s the place you mentioned. Just not your view. We all see things through different lenses.
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In your second sentence here rs: We have an accord!
And the lens of absolute truth must always have the upper hand; it’s a light/darkness kind of thing 😉
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I know. That’s why your lens is rather murky. Can’t tell one from t’other.
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Ah but rs, it is you who prefers the darkness and calls it light!
It is you who calls night, day! It is you who somehow thinks that the dairy or beef cow ‘evolved’ so it could give milk, or be a source of beef, leather, and be a beast of burden to the farmer in his field that ‘evolved’ from goo goo.
And you call this progress of thought. Please.
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It’s me who prefers life now rather than darkness at death.
And I certainly don’t consider cows to be a source of milk, beef, leather or be a beast of burden. Do you?
I think not eating animals is progress indeed. So did Gandhi. Ah. Wait. Wrong religion. Sorry. Sacred cows and all that.
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You missed the point entirely about the cow.
It was sarcastic to think that an animal ‘created itself’ for the purpose of providing all that for man……….
and it is a bad thing eh for the milk to sustain babies whose mothers cannot breastfeed………..
I know how much you cannot tolerate these discussions, as you state elsewhere, but tkx for the opportunity that gives others a chance to compare godlessnees against the dazzling light of day.
In the beginning God!!! Doncha just love hearing that!
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It’s not difficult to miss your points CS.
The creation of a cow is irrelevant. The fact is it is abused for human consumption and killed for food and leather. I don’t think that’s dazzling. I think that is selfish, thoughtless and cruel. It is indeed a bad thing and grossly speciesist to ensure a cow continues to lactate by taking away that cow’s calfs just to feed a human child. Making a cow breed endlessly, depriving them of their babies for human purposes, so continue to perpetually produce milk, is quite honestly, disgusting.
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The creation of the cow is salient, not irrelevant. Get a grip on that, and everything else is easy.
And nobody here is talking about the real or potential abuse of animals.
Then there is the camel…………
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When I read that Moses was a mythical character I was flabbergasted and then set about reading the bible.
It is utter garbage. But it is worth reading just to affirm this and wonder why people actually believe the shit contained within its pages. Yes, there are some historical aspects but don’t let anyone try to tell you it is inspired and better than anything else written.
Asimov (I think? ) suggested the best way to become and atheist was to read the bible – all of it.
I was pretty much an atheist before I set to that particular task but with subsequent historical cross referencing it quickly revealed just how goddamned ignorant the average Christian is about what they have been indoctrinated with.
Seriously, if it were not for the ‘excuse” of religion people like Insanitybytes, Wally, James Colorstorm and their ilk would be regarded as complete morons by ordinary secular society, in ta similar light in which we regard Dickheads such as Ken Ham and likely be restrained to some degree from coming into contact with children.
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Tell it like it is Ark! But why do I need to read it when I have so many respected opinions telling me it’s garbage? 🙂 There is literally no need for me to do so. I see Xtians spouting rubbish, not treating people equally and further, opposing equal rights for people, often cheating and/or divorced despite their god not being keen on all that, most of them eating dead animals, etc etc so why would I read a book that inspires such poor behaviour? It’s not exactly a glowing recommend. That’s before we get into their denial of history, archaeology and science.
Maybe one day they will be certified? Not in our lifetime. But my personal view is that religious belief should be on the list of mental health disorders.
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Need? No, of course not, but it adds an extra string to your bow, as the saying goes, and no knowledge is a waste.
It is a mental health disorder – ask a deconvert!
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As I rarely engage with them, I think it’s a string I can do without unless I run out of things to read. And I’d get more satisfaction out of reading a paint chart.
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@CS
Actually, cows being mammals like humans share similar characteristics: Hair at least somewhere on their body, they feed their young with milk; they are warm blooded, they have a backbone, and they have different types of teeth, rather than just one type of teeth in their mouths. Almost like we have a common ancestor… I know I know…*mindblown*.
Stop making science cry. Evolution is a real thing, try to learn a little about it so you can at least strawman it with a level of mastery higher than ‘not a fracking clue’.
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Cows’ stomachs are a bit different. Nor do they slaughter 40 + million humans a year to eat.
Still I doubt any of that was relevant to CS.
Because, in the beginning …
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