On the use of inflammatory language

I am a moth to a flame when it comes to a post decrying poor use of language. So I was irresistibly drawn to John Zande’s post about an evangelical who was proclaiming the ‘correct’ use of language for abortion.

Not only did we have language, we have feminism too!

Ironically, the OP quoted by John, moans about ‘political correctness’ but then proceeds to assert his own definition of the correct language regarding abortion. In simple words, abortion is murder.

Regardless of anyone’s personal views about abortion, as John said, this language is inaccurate based on law, science, medicine.

Or to dumb it right down, a foetus is not a person, a child, a baby, a human being. Unless your religion tells you it is. And you don’t agree with a woman’s right to choose what to do with her own body.

There are times I wish men got pregnant. I really do. Not to mention having periods.

I looked at David’s ‘About’ page, and followed his linky about how he became a fundy Christian and was intrigued with some journalism claims.

Dad was a journalist in the Air Force, who served in Public Affairs with the FAA after his military service.

and

I graduated high school, worked at the Sheriff’s office, and did courses at community college. My journalism instructor introduced me to broadcasting and got really interested in it, so I joined the Air Force and served in Armed Forces Radio & Television Service.

I asked about this on his post about correct and accurate language.

Did either of you gain any experience outside the armed forces or gain any national qualifications? I ask, because you are clearly aware of the power of words. But, had I ever used such grossly inaccurate and incorrect terminology in any of my jobs in government public relations or private sector journalism, then I would at least have got a carpeting and at worst, got the sack.

One of the paramount rules for journalism is NOT to let personal opinion influence one’s reporting, whether political, religious or whatever. Objectivity is our aim.

Your proposal for use of language here totally negates that and seeks to impose your religious perspective over and above the law and science. That is neither accurate or correct.

His reply:

I wanted to address the journalism angle, first. My father served in Public Affairs in the US Air Force, as well as being a deputy public affairs officer for the FAA. He wrote under the rules of the “journalism code”. I took journalism in my sophomore year of undergrad. From the inside, it looks like a fair-minded way of discourse. I remember thinking that way.

OK. So neither of them were qualified journalists or worked outside the armed forces or related, (FAA), according to that.

Then we have:

From the outside, it operates like a bunch of people who have only 1-side of a story they are allowed to tell. The only competition is how much higher one liberal reporter can stack talking points when compared to the other. I am grateful that I don’t have to attempt journalism, because my faith and convictions would never allow me a moment’s success.

Whoa! Whoa! What part of objectivity did you miss? Admittedly current day journalism leaves a lot to be desired, but I’m talking about reporting factually about something and presenting those facts honestly without bias.

Nice piece of patronisation here:

It seems like you come from a liberal/secular worldview, so you may not know how the other half of the country thinks and speaks. I vividly remember thinking the right-wing Christians entire worldview was nuts. I know the liberal mindset, because I had it. You know my background well enough to know that I realize how to detect spin – I made my living in it.

Truth is, I am totally confused about how America thinks. All of it. Let alone one half. But I did know about how my country thought. From rich to poor. The good thing about growing up in the UK was that no one put labels like that on you. Because no one gives a shit about your religion.

But spin. No, you are now making your living in it David. Religion is nothing but spin. An amateur PR person in the armed forces is not a professional spin officer. I, on the other hand, worked as a government public relations officer. I did make a living in what came to be called spin.

Apparently I am easily influenced.

I believe you genuinely believe what you are saying, but I also believe your thinking has been infused by liberal spin.

Try this:

I believe you genuinely believe what you are saying, but I also believe your thinking has been infused by religious spin.

Sadly spin has become a misused word, just like the words political correctness. When I started out in government PR, it was only just starting to bubble above the surface. Think, Bernard Ingham, all you old Brits.

But clever PR is about telling the truth without lying or misrepresentation. I cringed when I had to answer questions about Rechem and dioxins to the Sunday People. Every time there was a nuclear incident, and the odd radioactive flask went missing, I was the calm reassuring voice. When I was on call at night, it was down to me. Try dealing with the Herald of Free Enterprise capsizing (1987) and killing 193 people when all you have is a telephone landline to call people out of hours who might not answer. That’s not spin, or fluffy stories, that’s dealing with death and saying what the government is going to do about it.

And this, is why, I take exception to people deliberately misusing language. Did I try to paint my employer in the best light? Uh, yes. That was my job. Did I lie? No.

It seems some people can’t tell the difference between lies and damned lies.

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About roughseasinthemed

I write about my life as an English person living in Spain and Gibraltar, on Roughseas, subjects range from politics and current developments in Gib to book reviews, cooking and getting on with life. My views and thoughts on a variety of topics - depending on my mood of the day - can be found over on Clouds. A few pix are over on Everypic - although it is not a photoblog. And of course my dog had his own blog, but most of you knew that anyway. Pippadogblog etc
This entry was posted in christianity, feminism, journalism, Religion. Bookmark the permalink.

109 Responses to On the use of inflammatory language

  1. Kev says:

    Hey, you’re back! 😀

    Liked by 1 person

  2. gipsika says:

    Well done! And now I’m curious about the post on John Zande’s too…

    Like

    • Check it out. John’s was good.

      Liked by 1 person

    • gipsika says:

      Hmm. I went and read, and while I don’t agree with aggressively evangelizing individuals twisting the meaning of words, I can’t exactly agree with John Z either. Along with you, I wish men could experience pregnancy. To define a foetus pre 25 weeks as “not alive” must be one of the greatest hypocrisies of all. Brain function only magically kicks in at week 25? ‘scuse me. Progress is made all the time in studying embryology. Let me then argue that technically, until man has logic at age 12 (in cases of great luck – men are not known for great logic 😉 ), brain function has not really set in and therefore a child younger than this (or an adult incapable of logic) cannot be regarded as “alive”, and therefore, cannot be killed, so terminating such an individual cannot be termed murder.

      Sonars show limb movement even in embryos as small as 8 weeks, possibly smaller. Limb movements originate in the… you got it: Brain, not the placenta.

      Liked by 2 people

        • Yeah, I heard that elsewhere. You can read loads of views about it, not one I’m getting into. It’s not the point of my post, nor, to be honest, does my interest or scientific knowledge extend to comment sensibly on it. Dyskaryosis yes, stem cell research no. We all have our limitations.

          Liked by 1 person

          • gipsika says:

            Yup – 100%. Your post was to the point and succinct, well done! And I agree, the topic is far too loaded (with PC and anti-PC, right-wing and left-wing, polemics, hypocrisy and politics) to really be anything more than an invitation to a comment-war. 🙂 And there are many more sides than just the 2 extremes. So – with you.

            Like

          • Thank you. I try and stick to what I know about. Abortion always attracts so much attention. I’m sad that it does. It’s not an easy decision for a woman to make, and yet the whole world wants to weigh in. Why not criticise bombing the shit out of Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever? Nope, much easier to criticise abortion.

            However, if one is going to criticise it, then murdering a person is basically an inaccurate description whether we are talking legally, clinically, scientifically or in common parlance. And it does nothing for the women who are faced with that decision, for whatever reason. They need support not criticism and accusation, and to be able to make their own decision.

            Liked by 2 people

          • gipsika says:

            Over the years I’ve reached the painful conclusion that I probably feel worse about the aborted babies of those teenagers than they do themselves – especially if it’s already their 4th, or in some cases, 7th abortion. If they keep getting pregnant, why not use the Pill instead? But then, I should just let it go. Not my monkeys, not my circus. 🙂 Bottom line.

            Like

          • Maybe age factors into it, if we are relatively secure. But, I would have been terrified had I become pregnant due to contraception failure, and that does happen. It’s unfair to tell someone who has tried to avoid pregnancy that they are killing a baby.

            And if we are talking America, I have no idea about their access to contraception. The pill was free in the UK. Added benefit, regular periods. Or, the other way round, fixed periods, added benefit, provided contraception 🙂

            Liked by 1 person

        • Hariod Brawn says:

          Good for you Gipsika – absolutely disgusting, and inexcusable on any account.

          Like

      • john zande says:

        Hi Gip

        I appreciate what you said, and I apologise if I came across a little cold in the post, but it was specifically addressing the matter of truthful language use. That said, there simply isn’t any hint of consciousness in the foetus until after week as there is no neurological structure in place.

        “But when does the magical journey of consciousness begin? Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation. Roughly two months later synchrony of the electroencephalographic (EEG) rhythm across both cortical hemispheres signals the onset of global neuronal integration. Thus, many of the circuit elements necessary for consciousness are in place by the third trimester.”
        Prof. Christof Koch (2009)

        http://www.svss-uspda.ch/pdf/brain_waves.pdf

        Liked by 1 person

        • gipsika says:

          Hi John. Usually I’m pretty impressed with your postings, so this is not a value judgment. I’ve been learning a lot – perhaps a bit more than is good for me – about brain development. A lot of new research shows that specific brain functions are not half as localized as old research wanted to purport. Most old brain research was done on either injury patients or mentally deficient / unstable patients, i.e. it was brain damage research. It, e.g., also localized music in the auditory cortex, whereas new studies show that the whole brain is involved in listening to, and even more so performing of, music. So I take old or limiting brain research with a few bags of salt until further notice.

          Liked by 3 people

          • john zande says:

            A lot of new research shows that specific brain functions are not half as localized as old research wanted to purport.

            Right, but without a “brain” that’s On there is no sentience.

            It actually takes a newborn 36 months (after birth) before the frantic process of aborisation begins to settle down and memories can start to be stored.

            Liked by 2 people

        • gipsika says:

          By which objective measures does Koch measure “consciousness”?

          Like

          • john zande says:

            Synchronised EEG activity. Before that kicks in there simply isn’t any consciousness, no sentience.

            If read the paper I linked to it deals with the myths the pro-lifers put out.

            Liked by 2 people

          • gipsika says:

            I read the paper, and it also has a number of issues. One of them is that she stops short of pursuing research to its original source, calling it “invalid” before she finds the actual original article. Another is that she herself bases her conclusions on the outmoded opinions of one of the researchers from that era. Thirdly, all that research was in fact done on dying abortuses; once they were removed from the uterus, how “alive” did they stay and how long? Also, the measurement methods were quite crude. Then, too, the article itself is an opinion piece, of which she makes no secret: Her aim is to refute the “false evidence” pro-lifers put out.

            I’d like to see a truly objective, truly modern article on the whole business.

            Other points that bother me are the definitions. How is “consciousness” measured? Only via the existence of the human cerebral cortex? This ties in with the old-testamentarian view that animals don’t have consciousness (because we can’t measure it), something that was explored in-depth by animal ethologist Konrad Lorenz. Besides, the human brain is still largely unmyelinated and highly changeable in older children, even in teenagers; there is no point at which it is “finished”, though it seems to become less flexible the older one gets.

            The whole “science” surrounding abortions sounds to me as though it is laden with convenience. If these results were actually measured, and some of them she herself admits were, I have a problem with them being dismissed out of hand. But, you know, we live on a weird planet where people abort fully normal babies but keep badly damaged ones carefully alive over decades; where they mourn the death of a lion but not that of a hiker killed by a bear; where people sit in offices playing what looks like computer games and in faraway countries, their remote-controlled drones carry out “missions” to explode other people; I could carry on. We have 7 billion people. It’s not my monkey if some girls who don’t care about contraception keep on killing off foetuses.

            Btw if you think abortions happen only in the early months, you’re mistaken… (follow the links of the body-parts-vending abortion clinic)…

            Liked by 3 people

          • john zande says:

            99.9% of all abortions occur before week 21. The majority of that occur in the first 12 weeks.

            http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

            Liked by 2 people

          • gipsika says:

            Are you talking about natural miscarriage? Because many girls don’t even know before 12 weeks that they are pregnant.

            Planned Parenthood speaks distinctly about 26-week foetuses and how to extract them in a “partial birth”, so as to preserve as much of their organs as possible… (to an investigator posing as a “buyer” – caught in the act!)

            Here in SA, there was a definite time-line on abortions, and 2nd term abortions were already considered pretty traumatic. But this is in the past. You realize of course that there is a distinct commercial interest in abortuses? While Big Bucks is in the picture, there cannot be a rational discussion as they will put out all sorts of opinions, misinformation etc. to further their commercial goal.

            Apologies to RoughSeas, she didn’t really want to have this discussion on her blog. Guess posting on this topic is click-bait, like it or lump it. 😀

            Liked by 1 person

          • john zande says:

            No, surgical abortions. It’s all there in the link. 70% of all pregnancies end in natural abortion. From the U.S. National Library of Medicine:

            “Around half of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously, usually before the woman knows she is pregnant. Among women who know they are pregnant, the miscarriage rate is about 15-20%.”

            Liked by 2 people

          • gipsika says:

            70%. Wow, I have to wonder at their stats, but of course if you count every ovum that didn’t implant after fertilization, it may well be that high. It’s part of nature’s process of weeding out those combinations that are not viable. Most miscarriages that one can actually call this (where there was implantation) are first-trimester, and many of them are XO – Turner syndrome, which is surprising as Turner is not really a very abnormal phenotype. Yeah.

            As for surgical abortions, I still can’t imagine most are before 12 weeks. But, if it’s in the stats… 😀

            Liked by 2 people

      • Let’s look at this from the average woman’s point of view who is not an evangelical Christian. I also said I’m not defining the medical, or legal or scientific terms. Merely going by them. So to say that an abortion is murdering a baby, child, person, human being, is wrong. Inaccurate. Incorrect. And most women are not aware of the current latest research on embryology. If they have got pregnant by mistake and don’t want to have a baby, then being told they are murdering a child isn’t exactly helpful.

        To most women, it’s a question of, do I want to have a baby or not? Nobody goes out of their way to have an abortion. The point is, women who genuinely want one should not be accused of murder.

        Liked by 2 people

        • gipsika says:

          The most frequent users of this system are repeat users, usually teens that simply cannot be persuaded to use contraceptives instead.

          Like

          • Stats? but how easily available are the contraceptives, or the sex education in the first place? Interestingly, the UK had a huge rate of teenage pregnancy when I was there 😦 no idea if it had changed. Mega peer group pressure there though too.

            Liked by 1 person

          • gipsika says:

            Yes, see. And the pressure society places on these teenagers. Is it really their own free choice they are exercising, or is it “my father’s will be done”? How many men bully their daughters into getting an abortion to “keep the family name clean”? (I’ve met personal cases!) Where is the choice in that case? Not with the woman herself, at least. (I know one reverse case too, who decided to keep her baby, run away from home, marry the father – at age 16 – and she never looked back. But it takes a strong rebel to go through with that in this day and age.)

            You asked for stats, I found a few pdf links but here is one that is at least not a pdf:
            https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/teens-having-as-many-as-7-abortion-uk-stats

            “LONDON, UK, May 28, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – National Health Service (NHS) data for abortions carried out in 2010, the most recent year for which figures are available, have revealed that of the 38,269 teenagers who aborted their children, three had seven previous abortions and two had had six.

            According to the statistics, another fourteen teenage girls had their fifth abortion in 2010, 57 teens aborted for the fourth time, 485 for a third time, and more than 5,300 were committed on teenagers who had already had at least one abortion.

            In all, repeat abortions accounted for about a third of 189,574 abortions carried out in 2010 for women of all ages.”

            Liked by 1 person

          • Thanks for that. Way to go with a misleading headline though! ‘Teens having as many as seven abortions’ ie THREE out of 38,000 had seven, and two had six. Personally I’d have gone for ‘thousands of teens have repeat abortions’. Looks like teenage pregnancies in the UK haven’t changed 😦

            Liked by 1 person

          • gipsika says:

            I agree, the headline is misleading, but the moment you look at third-time and second-time abortions, it does run into the hundreds and into the thousands. It’s the concept of the system being used as contraception. The fact that teens go for seconds and thirds tells me that it can’t be all that traumatic for them.

            And once again you nailed it: A misleading headline. Though it isn’t downright inaccurate; but the bigger concern is the whole concept of repeat abortions on the whole.

            Like

          • Although the majority of repeaters are not teenagers. This is one of those topics where the stats definitely do not say it all. I think one would need far more background to start drawing any conclusions at all. Right now, with those figures all we can say is that in 2010 in the UK, 190, abortions were carried out, some of which were to women who had already had one or more.

            Given that the article was by life, I guess they were going for the most shocking headline they could find that gave weight to their cause. I’d argue about some of the reporting too, but I think griping about the headline is sufficient 😀 you’re right too, it’s not inaccurate, but a headline should summarise the main news item and it isn’t about three teenagers, it’s about the overall number.

            Liked by 1 person

          • gipsika says:

            I wasn’t looking so much at the reporting which is indeed basically “emotive writing”, but at the NHS stats quoted. But, yeah.

            Liked by 1 person

          • But to go back to the gist of my post, people are influenced by emotive writing. Few people untangle the facts and the stats from the overall post. Sure, you and I will. Others don’t question the presentation or the use of language. Hence there is an overwhelming need to talk accurately about a subject like this that always, always, causes so much dissension. The truth is, the two sides will never meet.

            Liked by 1 person

          • gipsika says:

            It is absolutely amazing how people can’t tell the difference between fact and emotive writing. It keeps astounding me. This is one of the things we were taught in high-school, in critical writing skills, how to separate our own opinion from the facts we’re presenting.

            A lot more disturbing is how some writers manage to portray otherwise neutral findings to mean things they don’t necessarily mean.

            Like

        • gipsika says:

          It should be a choice in cases where negligence and irresponsibility wasn’t at the root of the pregnancy. The clinic exploiting the system to sell of body parts is… eugh!

          Like

  3. john zande says:

    Great post!

    I’m still astounded at David’s post. Beside the factual errors, I simply can’t work out if he genuinely can’t see the hypocrisy of his post, or he does see it and just doesn’t care.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Sonel says:

    Good to see you back Kate. 😀

    Oh, if only some men could get pregnant. I would love to see them having pms or menopause. I just wonder what excuses they would have then. 😀

    Whoever this guy is, he clearly doesn’t have your journalistic experience. Not even close. He should go back to school.

    As for abortion, I think people shouldn’t be so quick to judge. If a woman should choose to have one, it’s her choice and it shouldn’t be seen as ‘murder’. It’s her choice. Those of us who never had to go through a something like that, have no idea what it would be like.

    What I did notice about believers is the fact that they don’t know fact from fiction. If they can believe in some entity high up in the sky, then I guess they don’t have their facts straight. 😛

    Please give Snowy lots of hugs and kisses from me. ♥

    Liked by 1 person

    • Ta Sonel. Bit difficult to let that one go given my background!

      Yes. I like the idea of pregnant men, men with periods, men and the menopause 🙂 and we thought man flu was bad …

      Because he’s putting his religion first, he’s totally flouting rules/codes/ethics of writing and factual presentation. He’s confusing his religious opinion with the law as it currently stands.

      Gipsika posted a link to women having repeat abortions above. Maybe if you’ve had one, it becomes less traumatic. I’m glad I don’t know and it’s too late to find out 🙂 But I certainly wouldn’t want to go through it. However, the truth is, it’s a recognised medical procedure and is not the murder of a baby/child/etc.

      And while the stats show 190,000 abortions carried out (UK) in 2010, at least those women had access to a safe service, as they should.

      Snowy says thanks and sends you a tiny nose lick 🐶

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sonel says:

        Well, if I’ve had your experience and education, I would have done the same. 😀

        haha, same here. I bet we’ll have less children too. LOL!

        Well said. Seems being confused is also part of being religious. 😛

        That was a very interesting link for sure and very unfortunate. That is not right. I’d say, sterilize those teens. Clearly they just want the sex, have no brains and as sure as hell they shouldn’t have kids! There are women who would love to have kids and can’t, but it is really unfair for anyone to see necessary abortions as murder. It’s like you said – it’s a recognised medical procedure. Just as you, I wouldn’t want to go through something like that either. I think most people should just walk in others’ shoes before they start allowing their mouths to run off. 😀

        Yes, I’ve read and heard about the unsafe abortions as well, where some of the women died as well.

        Tell Snowy I say thanks as well for the lovely nose lick. He is just so adorable. More ♥ Hugs ♥ to both of you. 😀

        Liked by 1 person

        • I try and still my itchy fingers these days, but in no good at letting inaccurate language go. Especially when said post is complaint about language! Aargh!

          That’s an interesting one. World population solved immediately. Quick shift, give men periods and make them pregnant. Oh yes 😀

          Man: Ooooh! I’ve got a tummy ache!!!! And I feel sick. And my head aches. (This is obviously just the periods).

          Woman: Toughen up. Not my fault you have a poorly tumtum. Take some painkillers, shut up whingeing and go to school/work/get on with the housework.

          Man: but it hurts. I can’t 😦 boo hoo. I want sympathy, I’m poorly, it’s natural, I need special treatment.

          Woman: god help you when you get pregnant. 😈

          You and I agree on these sort of subjects though, to be serious, live and let live and don’t stick your nose in someone else’s business. How difficult is that? Very, apparently.

          There was a lot of backstreet abortion in the UK before it was legalised. Horrific stories of women sticking knitting needles up themselves too. Gin came into it somewhere although can’t remember why. To reduce the pain? Or maybe an old wives tale that it would induce abortion? Can’t remember now. But this is what restricting abortion would do. Drive women into the hands of unscrupulous people.

          Snows has been good today. Sends kind regards to Simba and Russel. 🐾❤️

          Liked by 2 people

          • Sonel says:

            hahahha! I don’t blame you at all. When it comes to that, I would have an excuse at least as english is my second language. 😆 I have no idea what is his excuse. 😀

            Bwhahahahha! Now that scene would make a great advertisement for contraceptives.

            I agree with you there totally. It seems that some people are bored.

            I for one am glad it was legalised but even then there are some that still do it that way. Not to talk about little newborns found in garbage bags or in the trash dumps. It’s really sad.

            Guess they thought being drunk would help. No idea either. Don’t drink Gin. Whiskey yes, but not to get drunk and I can’t think that alcohol would induce abortion and if it did, she would die of blood loss as alcohol thins the blood.

            Exactly. So why the restriction. Just because some say it’s murder? I would love to hear what they have to say if it has to happen to them.

            And since when isn’t he good? He’s a sweet, darling baby. I will, thanks. Russel just wants to play and Simba is snoring in his other bed in the bedroom. The two of us had an afternoon nap, he woke me to go out and then went back to sleep again. 😀

            Liked by 1 person

          • I’ve said before, but I wish any of my second languages were half as good as yours. It’s not just spelling and grammar, you have the slang and the idioms and that makes a real difference.

            Bad enough rescuing dogs from rubbish bins without starting on babies 😟

            Gin. I’ve remembered the name, known as ‘Mother’s ruin’. No idea if it worked though.the link is interesting that I added.

            Haha. He’s good when he wants to be. Little manipulator. My boys are watching a film on the bed together so they are happy. Sunday afternoons huh? 🙂

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel says:

            Thanks again and it’s true. Just don’t let me get started on my swear words. LOL!

            Absolutely! Now that’s just as sad and it makes me wonder why some humans deserve to live.

            Definitely ruined some lives thanks to useless doctors and because those women believed them.

            LOL! Aren’t they all? Just like kids and yes, very good manipulators.

            That sounds lovely. I’m on my way to do some of that myself. Found a series called Rizzoli and Isles. Cop movie and quite good. Now I’m watching it from Season 1.

            Sunday afternoons are the best. Lazy and relaxing. 😀

            Liked by 1 person

          • Enjoy darling, 🙂 Boys have moved on from some Australian film to a Jason Statham bank thing. Thank goodness for YouTube!

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel says:

            Oh, I love Jason Statham’s movies. He is a great actor. Thank goodness yes. There are days when I am only streaming YouTube videos. LOL!

            Like

          • I think the current one is Parker. He’s made a hell of a lot of films!

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel says:

            Loved Parker. Jennifer Lopez was in it as well. Great movie. 😀

            Like

          • Haha. His YouTube version finished before the end 😀

            Like

          • Sonel says:

            Oh no! Now that sucks! Here’s a movie site where I normally check for movies. Maybe you guys know about it as well: http://xmovies8.tv/

            Like

          • Certainly don’t. Is it safe?

            Like

          • Sonel says:

            Well, the ones I’ve watched was. It was YouTube videos, but if you click on the YouTube link and go directly to it, it says it doesn’t exist, so I think they upload it directly on their site. Some of the movies says it can’t be aired in our country. But as for the website, it’s safe as far as I can tell. Haven’t had any problems yet. 😀

            Liked by 1 person

          • Ta. Might give it a try.watched a biker film last night really good, with Michael Madsen as the usual off the wall baddie, and the young Sheen as the undercover goodie.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel says:

            Had to google that one because I wasn’t sure if I’ve seen it. Hell ride? Will definitely watch it. Love his movies and he is also a great actor. Thanks! 😀

            Like

          • Beyond the law. 1992. Based on a true story. Don’t read the summaries as it will spoil it 😀

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel says:

            Will do so, thanks. 😀

            Liked by 1 person

          • He found it on YouTube so should come up with a bit of searching.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel says:

            And thanks, I will. You must also enjoy the rest of your Sunday. 😀 ♥

            Liked by 1 person

          • Lol. I need to do some work and finish cooking. He was bought breakfast today so hasn’t been hungry, so I’ve taken all day to cook 😀

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel says:

            Enjoy! What are you having?

            Like

          • Red peppers stuffed with onion, cheese, cilantro, flour, topped with potato to crisp it up. Potato flavoured with cumin seeds, lemon juice and salt. Sauce afghan, which is tomato (shortage of those), onion, garlic, fennel, coriander and yoghurt. Rice. The rice is plain. Enough faff with the rest!

            Liked by 2 people

          • john zande says:

            …or in other words, Maca’s takeaway 🙂

            Like

          • john zande says:

            You’re not asking me to explain a joke, are you? 😦

            Like

          • john zande says:

            You’re no fun 😉

            Like

          • I have no sense of humour at bedtime! 😀

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel says:

            Hmmmm, that sounds so delicious! Just let me warm up the Jet and fill it up – be there in a minute! 😆

            Like

          • It was quite filling. I’ve got some left over so I’ll send them across to you 🙂

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel says:

            Oh, I bet it was. Thanks, you’re a darling. The Jet didn’t want to start. As usual. 😆

            Liked by 1 person

          • Never mind. Simba and Russel might have got jetlag 😉 or eaten the contents of the doggy bag.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Sonel says:

            LOL! Yeah, never thought of that. Thanks for reminding me. 😀

            Liked by 1 person

  5. The OP’s post isn’t anything new in the States. Basically it’s canned rhetoric which doesn’t even care about reducing unwanted pregnancy, improving fetal mortality rates, or any other factor which would reduce unwanted and unhealthy pregnancies. Abortion arguments in the U.S. have been relegated to automatic slurs which get often repeated but never thought about.

    As a result, it’s done some really strange things to fetal homicide statutes and even prosecuting at least one woman for having a miscarriage. On the social side, pro-life advocates a position which doesn’t promote child welfare despite claiming that’s the reason for doing what they do. On the healthcare side, it involves political interference in the medical needs of often very poor women who have very few choices when it comes to healthcare simply because abortions are performed in a physical location.

    That’s the good news.

    The bad news is that all this money, dumped into PAC’s, politicians’ coffers, talking heads, speaking engagements, pseudo-science, not to mention all of the other logistics of passing laws relegated to effectively just emotionally rip apart women who might not have wanted to terminate their pregnancies in the first place or were otherwise suffering, every red cent of it could have been devoted to research and promoting healthier children, women, and men.

    But no. Calling abortion murder really solves all of the problems much better.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks Sirius. You get far more exposure to this craziness than us non-Americans do.

      What defeats me, is the lack of logic. You are right of course, it is mere religious politico ranting for the sake of it.

      Sense would argue for sexual education, easily available access to free/subsidised contraception, and societal change in attitudes towards women where they aren’t seen as a breeding machine with their only goal in life is to get married. But that must be pretty difficult in deprived areas where there are no jobs, and education doesn’t get you anywhere. I cringe when I read about university graduates swimming in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. This isn’t an anti-American post but you have one fucked-up society. In fact it’s not a society, it’s a land of individuals all scrabbling to the top and pushing as many people down as possible on the way up. Sorry. Bit O/T there, although I think it is relevant because you can’t look at socio-economic problems in isolation. And religion contributes towards those problems.

      Regardless, it’s a good and pithy comment. Thanks for your contribution. And to quote the OP, telling lies solves all of the problems …

      Liked by 1 person

    • gipsika says:

      What worries me about this whole debate is this: Who speaks for the young mother-not-to-be? Is it really her own decision or is it another case of young women (many of them under-age in the first place) being domineered by other people (peers, parents, the boyfriend)? I know at least 3 women (in their 20’s and studying or working) whose boyfriends, when finding out they were pregnant, blackmailed them into abortions. False promises are made, or threats. Fathers too who kicked out their teenage daughters. I’m not sure how much “choice” enters into these equations. The women involved feel that they have no choice. If abortion weren’t available, men would have to take responsibility where now they can simply shirk it. The real beneficiary of the procedure is the male who caused the baby, not the woman who underwent it. From that point of view alone, women are still treated like cattle (via social and familial pressure, blackmail etc). I can see why men weigh in on a topic that will never touch them and their own bodies personally. It’s convenient.

      Liked by 2 people

      • I think it’s a valid point about who speaks for the pregnant woman. However, if she is unsure about what she wants to do, she needs objective advice from both points of view. If she chooses to give birth, she needs to be aware of the financial consequences, the restrictions on her personal life, her working life, the sleepless nights, to know that parenting isn’t playing with inanimate dolls. And the huge responsibility that comes with bringing a life into this strange world.

        I’d want to take it all back a step and have far more education not just about sex, but about parenting. How many couples discuss children and what it really entails before they embark on a relationship? I know many who didn’t, the ones I know who did were my university peers, and oddly, my parents.

        But to turn around coercing women into abortion, what about the men who fight for the right for their child to be born when the woman doesn’t want it? That’s when women’s bodily autonomy is really being denied. I can not agree with forced carrying to term.

        Liked by 2 people

        • gipsika says:

          100% in agreement! That is an even bigger trespass. I agree with you, educating kids before they hit puberty is the key.

          Liked by 1 person

          • lol! Puberty. Our sex education at school, post puberty, involved discussing amoeba and frogs in biology!

            There used to be class in sixth form called Civics, think it was scrapped or renamed either before I took it or shortly after. It aimed at teaching us about life, which as I recall involved a visit to Crown Court (just down the street). Given this was a private school aimed at sending girls to university, I would hope Crown Court was an irrelevancy apart from aspiring lawyers.
            But there was nothing practical. Pensions, Children, Parenting, Relationships, looking after ageing relatives, dealing with death, childbirth, marriage. These are all fundamental. Question is, would teenagers have listened? Nah, that’s for old people. And yet, we had at least one teenage pregnancy in my posh school, to my knowledge.

            Like

  6. EllaDee says:

    There’s no end to people projecting their own agenda using whatever means, so-called correct language, right thinking, moral or scientific basis… and so on. Some people fight fair, others don’t. But rhetorical devices don’t change facts despite the nuances of them being much debated.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I think the problem with any debate is that once emotion gets involved, logic, facts and rationality go out of the window. And however you look at it, religious fundamentalism is firmly based on emotion. If someone personally considers abortion to be murder, that’s their business. But it isn’t the current law in the countries we’re talking about, and they don’t have the right to impose their view on anyone else.

      It’s no different to the religious argument on same sex marriage. We don’t agree with it, so therefore no one else can have it.Have you read about the American Christian who’s on ABC this week, tomorrow’s Q&A? Having failed in America on SSM, she’s now turned her attention to Australia.

      Liked by 2 people

  7. EllaDee says:

    Katy Faust? I have, just. Sigh.

    Like

  8. Knock knock. G’afternoon roughseas! You home? 😉

    Well, after my 2nd cup of energy-jolting coffee, perhaps I should pop over to John Z’s post and see what all the fuss is about… and get my blood pressure way up. LOL

    Don’t you just love American Fundy’s roughseas, especially their “public” image? 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Kev says:

    I would contribute more to this post, what you say, makes sense, but that’s as far as I could honestly go. Two major reasons:

    First and foremost, I’m male and don’t have to deal the physiological issues… whereas females do. Emotional, I can grapple with and see both povs, Mentally, I can grapple with that too… but the physiological… not a chance. I don’t think men could ever possibly grasp that. So without the three components working together, we cannot truly grasp the whole and therefore should leave it to those who can.

    Second. I’ve never had to deal with the issue even as a partner or husband… thankfully Therefore I have neither the experience nor sufficient knowledge to say more on the matter that would be anything beyond simple opinion and this is most certainly a subject matter that warrants much more than simple opinion or belief.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. Reappearing with a grand entrance are you? Well said. (what’s to add ? Not much)
    That particular blogger seems to be an example of the old saying “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.” I could spit and fume, but pointless as those who don’t know they don’t know are not worth the effort.(today anyway…ask me tomorrow…)
    Pointing out the use of language and journalism is quite appropriate.
    Men should just shut up about something that doesn’t involve them. To have an abortion is not an easy decision. Why make it more difficult?
    I am so livid at Planned Parenthood whose arrogance (and possible greed – those women may have donated for science, but I doubt they knew you were selling it – or changing procedures to get better items to sell.) has destroyed all the hard work of so many who wanted to make sure women have a choice. You were there to improve women’s lives – that was what should have been your only concern. This scandal – all these employees chatting on camera, it looks bad, very bad.
    But OK move on. Planned Parenthood can now become a normal healthcare provider like all the other hospitals, clinics, outpatient centers and health providers. It’s all covered now under the healthcare law, so just do it proper and legal like all the others.
    Contraception in most places here is cheap($5.00 a month even before the big health care law passed) or free (at clinics, some high schools, and most universities/colleges at the health clinics there). Anyone who really wants it can get it.
    Part of the problem is that some men dislike any kind of contraception and pressure “their women” (mainly young girls) not to use it as it “interferes with sexual pleasure” (? confusing, yes). Also some young men want to father children – especially baby boys – so they can walk around and brag how manly they are (but few pay for child’s expenses or are even around to raise the child) Babies are taken to high school sports and oooo-ed and ahhh-ed over like trophies. Of course the teen moms enjoy all the attention and often think a child will tie the father to them (wrong, usually. Multiple baby mommas and multiple unsupported kids.)
    But back to topic. Always thought inflammatory language, overly emotional language, ridicule or demonizing those who disagree were all poor tools used by weak minds and those who had nothing really factual to support their own beliefs.
    Snowy! It’s cloudy today – Molly says paw waves!

    Like

    • Flitting in and out more like. Language though, is always a trigger for me. It does make a difference. Why else are we all writing? But with that goes responsibility.

      There’s a lot of controversy and different perspectives about the PP video, and, I didn’t want to get into that. I’m interested in free/easily accessible contraception. More of that = less abortions. No one is mandating for more abortions. But when needed, they should be available. Possibly with a little less judgement involved too.

      Your point about macho men fathering kids is well made, and the same goes for young women too, often teens. If you can’t achieve anything else, at least you can become a mother. Oh. And who, supports said babe? Without incomes, secure homes etc. These are the wider aspects of pregnancy that aren’t being sufficiently looked at. Too difficult.

      Disagree? Not on my blog. Won’t have it! Off to the spam bin. Molly, please keep an eye out, no disagreements from staff allowed. Cooling down a bit here now, more mid twenties. Can be pleasant depending on humidity, ie been 80–95 ish recently. Better today I think. Afternoon nap snoozes from Snows. Looking forward to the German’s visit.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Well, the wack jobs came out yesterday ( before the huge rain) all around the country with their pious protests. They are a dwindling minority despite their noise. Sigh
        You made solid points.
        Roasting and sloshy here (Putting down some mulch in mud wallers in hoping to keep up coming paws drier. Fat chance.) Paw waves to Snowy…or there would be if Molly was awake. (Molly says we should stop looking a Caribbean islands’ info – it’s too hot for her and all the dogs in the pictures have big slobbery tongues hanging out – because they are too hot. She’s thinking cooler places…)

        Like

        • More protests. Hmm. Life is too short. Protest about what matters.

          Cats. Shortage of toys. Seagulls. Need for treats. To go out. These are important. Humans need to sort their priorities.

          It’s been warm here this summer. And as said humid. Still, tolerable. Scotland is cool. Can recommend the Hebrides 🙂 My previous boys give them a paws up. Snowy shrugs, Gib and Spain is all he knows. Friendly kisses to Molly.

          Liked by 1 person

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